North Hills East

[Rufus]

i thought that Duke was going after the RBC project and not Site 1. They had challenged Highwoods with a proposal, but it was too late. Anyways, i know this new relationship with Kane is going to work out. This is a big step in NHE's future and the entire area as a whole.

[dmccall]

I grew up off of Lassiter Mill Road and the traffic in the 80's (when North Hills Mall was thriving) was FAR worse then. The area can handle much, much more traffic. This was a point raised by M. Silver in the NHE approval meeting.

The 30-story thing was simply the city's allowance. Kane has only said they were looking in the upper teens and never said anything about a taller plan.

I think that Kane is FOS, though. So, if we chip in $75M, he'll build $800M. If we don't, he'll build $140M. Doesn't that seem like an insane choice? 140 or 800? In other words he can't build ANY of the $660M extras without a $75M parking deck? It seems awfully strange to have financing of 10% of a project be the make or break. I think he's bluffing and when he proposes a $140M project with large surface parking, the city ought to say "no" then and tell him he can do better.

[Gard]

I think that Kane is FOS, though. So, if we chip in $75M, he'll build $800M. If we don't, he'll build $140M. Doesn't that seem like an insane choice? 140 or 800? In other words he can't build ANY of the $660M extras without a $75M parking deck? It seems awfully strange to have financing of 10% of a project be the make or break. I think he's bluffing and when he proposes a $140M project with large surface parking, the city ought to say "no" then and tell him he can do better.

[Jones_]

I grew up off of Lassiter Mill Road and the traffic in the 80's (when North Hills Mall was thriving) was FAR worse then. The area can handle much, much more traffic. This was a point raised by M. Silver in the NHE approval meeting

[ChiefJoJo]

just trying to wrap my brain around whats different....

[Subway Scoundrel]

I think that Kane is FOS, though. So, if we chip in $75M, he'll build $800M. If we don't, he'll build $140M. Doesn't that seem like an insane choice? 140 or 800? In other words he can't build ANY of the $660M extras without a $75M parking deck? It seems awfully strange to have financing of 10% of a project be the make or break. I think he's bluffing and when he proposes a $140M project with large surface parking, the city ought to say "no" then and tell him he can do better.

[ncsugrad204]

this is pretty cool

new tower at North hill east

[NCpride]

this is pretty cool

new tower at North hill east

[ncsugrad204]

Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and of course I'd rather have this building than not. But, this rendering looks an awful lot like a hospital to me...

[queensguy06]

I like the building, it just has this sort of prison/mental hospital from a scary movie feel.

[plus2]

I'm all for the urbanization of North Hills, and I'm sure this building will grow on me and will look good in context. So I will give it my ok, but I have a personal preference for slimmer tall buildings.

[Tayfromcarolina]

This project is become more and more like Atlantic Station down in Atlanta, which I absolutely love. Check it out. >>> Atlantic Station Midtown Atlanta

I like the rendering myself. Very Crisp.

[NCMike1981]

Wow it's going to be taller then University Tower in Durham, I suppose it's just alot "fatter"

[willrusso]

20stories/260ft tall.

250,000sf of office space.

25,000sf of ground-level restaurants.

Planned for a 2009 completion.

[Bull City Rising]

Don't get me wrong, this is exciting news and of course I'd rather have this building than not. But, this rendering looks an awful lot like a hospital to me...

[tkd720man]

On its own it looks like a hospital, but I suspect that when two or three more towers are placed around it this one will look VERY nice. That rendering gives you the impression that this will be built in the middle of a corn field - a setting that certainly doesn't do it any favors.

Obviously Kane put this out there to get people interested in what he plans on building and to put some pressure on the city council. He probably won't get what he wants with the TIF, but this turns that debate into something concrete (steel and glass, to be specific ) as opposed to something abstract. If everybody is talking in the abstract it's much easier for the city council to play hardball, but nobody wants to be the council member who's known for putting the axe to THAT.

If he doesn't get the TIF, what do you suppose Kane expects to get from the city council with the added pressure?

[Jones_]

TBJ on County using TIF's

on a similar note it just occurred to me that the lecture on the cost of free parking stuff that Jojo showed us relates to this....it seems Kane could build his own parking deck if he charged people to use it...but I assume that like North Hills proper, use of the deck is intended to be free, and as such government ultimately bears the cost of free parking....funny how this logic is so often used in anti-tax arguments but the Lockes of the world are silent (I think) when it comes to government subsidizing the use of the automobile.

[ChiefJoJo]

From that article:

"The city and county must come up with a consistent policy that applies to everybody equally, so no project is above another," Mundra says. "If (the Soleil Center meets) the criteria, we should get a TIF."

That's exactly why we don't need it. Here you have two major projects that were proposed before the issue came up, and if it's approved at NH East, we'll soon see an assembly line of developers lining up outside city hall asking for a piece of the action. REALLY bad idea.

Jones, you bring up a point I've made before. If he can't pay for the deck due to jacking up office rents, why not charge $1 per car and there you have your self-financed deck. Surely if the development is as good as he says it will be, folks would pay a small fee to park there, just as they do downtown.

[dmccall]

I was at Atlantic Station in Atlanta a few weeks ago and they have paid parking underneath now. The first 2 hours is free, then it is like a dollar for every hour thereafter. (AS, if you don't know, is a development much like North Hills in Atlanta' midtown. It is about 10X the size of NH currently is)

[ncwebguy]

This is (I think) the text from the ballot for Amendment One that approved TIFs (bold added by me for emphasis):

Constitutional amendment to promote local economic and community development projects by (i) permitting the General Assembly to enact general laws giving counties, cities, and towns the power to finance public improvements associated with qualified private economic and community improvements within development districts, as long as the financing is secured by the additional tax revenues resulting from the enhanced property valued within the development district and is not secured by a pledge of the local government

[dmccall]

I think those items are a "public improvement", however I do agree with your overall point. Neighbors around those apartments are already talking about how much more peaceful their streets are.

I think the spirit of the TIF is to encourage revitalization in areas that wouldn't change based purely on market forces. NH is certainly a desirable real estate area and would be re-developed anyway. The other point, raised by JoJo and others, is the terrible precedent a NHE TIF would set.

I raised this point earlier, but I want to sit down with Philip Isley and remind him that a good Conservative wants a smaller investment and market forces to rule. He says it is a moneymaker for Raleigh (and he's got a pretty good sense of that kind of thing), but I think we ought to let the market decide that.

[ChiefJoJo]

... I want to sit down with Philip Isley and remind him that a good conservative wants a smaller investment and market forces to rule [JoJo addendum] except when it comes to benefiting certain special interests, such as the development industry.[/JoJo addendum]

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

... I want to sit down with Philip Isley and remind him that a good conservative wants a smaller investment and market forces to rule [JoJo addendum] except when it comes to benefiting certain special interests, such as the development industry.[/JoJo addendum]

[ncwebguy]

To me, TIFs should be granted similarly to the way the EPA's brownfields program. Instead of remediating toxic soil, they would improve "economically toxic" areas to fill the gap between a developer's investment and the funding to create an economically viable project.

In this area, if Amenment One was passed before any North Hills rennovations, it could have been appropriate to rennovate/rebuild the apartment complex first, if it was the worst part of the area. Fixing up the apartments would have spurred redevelopment interest in the old North Hills Mall property and surrounding areas.

Revelaing plans too early made the cost of land acquisition go up too much, but the city and county shouldn't reward that strategy with future tax receipts.

I used to play basketball behind Caroll Middle School when the rennovations started. It was nice to have options other than the Millbrook/Six Forks Taco Bell/KFC, but even then the area was not hurting, especially behind the church complex, First Citizens, BTI, and Lassiter, especially inside the beltline.

North Hills didn't try to compete for years before Triangle Town Center was coming out of the ground. It was like a smaller Cary Town Center and got worse as "local stores" (though I use that term loosely) filled in the gaps the national chains left. Crabtree didn't need a TIF for the Hecht's/Sears expansion.

To use Charlotte as a parallel, if North Hills followed suit, it could have gone upscale like South Park, but did little to nothing and ended up with an Eastland-like demise.

[dmccall]

I used to play basketball behind Caroll Middle School when the rennovations started. It was nice to have options other than the Millbrook/Six Forks Taco Bell/KFC,