Downcity/Providence Retail

[brick]

Was down on Westminster Sunday afternoon checking out a few lofts at the Peerless.

The stores look good but three Sundays before XMas at 12:30 there was hardly anyone around. Meanwhile I later went to the mall to see Narnia and the place was completely packed.

I think the biggest challenge facing Westminster St. is still going to be getting people over that way, and with the snowy conditions, poorly plowed streets, and uncleared sidewalks in some places, they will have a really hard time. I know that the meteorologists kind of dropped the ball on Friday's storm, predicting a conversion to warmer temperatures in the evening, but there was nothing about looking at Westminster street on Sunday that would make me think it was "open for business." They definitely need signage and as an association need to do something more than the canopy lights to show that there is something going on over there. (this was really the main thrust behind my shopping shuttle idea) I also think Cotuit's idea of forming a little association and having validated parking is a good one. There was plenty of surface parking available (as those of you familiar with the area know), but I'm not going to pay $5 or more just to go shopping.

Anyway I did also take a run into Biggles since I love toy stores and I thought it was well done for the space. The ceilings don't strike me as quite high enough and other than the themed rooms there was something of a lack of permanence to the store. Due to time constraints I was not able to get anywhere else, although DWR and Butterfield's both looked intriguing enough.

[Cotuit]

I also think Cotuit's idea of forming a little association and having validated parking is a good one.

Apparently they do have this. It just needs to be communicated somehow. My idea was to create branding for it so that you would know which stores and which parking lots participate.

I don't think Westminster quite has the critical mass to make a real go of it this Christmas, but they have 12 months to get themselves ready for next year.

Also on the snow issue. The city is frankly f*cked if they don't address this. One train of though was that having the high priced condos downtown, there would be an outcry from the residents that could not be ignored. Well, I slid by the Cosmopolitan Building this morning where the unsholved snow has become a sheet of ice. If these people can't even get the sidewalk infront of their building shoveled, what hope is there for the rest of the city? I would be outraged if I paid what they pay to live in that building and have the sidewalks right out front left uncleared.

And I am utterly disgusted with the city as whole on snow removal, from the state, to the city, to the parks department, to private property owners. We had a hell of a squall Friday afternoon, but when all was said and done we got what, 4 inches. The conditions of the streets and sidewalks 3 days later is completely inexcusable. I could not right now in good conscience recommend that anyone come into the city to shop downtown or in any of the neighbourhoods, it is literally too dangerous to navigate the city on foot.

Why should anyone come into Providence and risk life and limb (and brain injury) walking around when every sprawlmart in sprawland has all of their parking lots clear and ready to accept customers?

[Liamlunchtray]

The stores look good but three Sundays before XMas at 12:30 there was hardly anyone around.

Anyway I did also take a run into Biggles since I love toy stores and I thought it was well done for the space. The ceilings don't strike me as quite high enough and other than the themed rooms there was something of a lack of permanence to the store. Due to time constraints I was not able to get anywhere else, although DWR and Butterfield's both looked intriguing enough.

I was at Biggles on Sunday about an hour after you and it was actually pretty busy. They have improved their stock quite a bit too. Funny what you said about the "lack of permanance". Thats exactly what I felt but didnt quite know how to explain it. the store is well laid out, but they REALLY should have removed the drop ceilings and put down some bright linoleum or something instead of the carpet. The theme rooms are pretty well executed, but it totally feels like an office still. It's kind of too bad, because they obviously spend a lot of time & money creating the rest of it.

[basachs]

I went in there on Thursday night, and frankly, I don't get it. They just have different colored t-shirts basically. A few jackets... Is that it? They turn a profit on that (well looking at the price tags I guess they turn a profit)? Are kids these days really that stupid to pay that kind of money for t-shirts?

I went in yesterday and bought a few items. They dont have all their stuff out yet. Like their line of natural cotton clothing. They have t-shirts, sweatpants, shorts, polo shirts, some skirts, tube tops, socks, leggings, etc.

I like their stuff. It is comfortable, wears well and is made in the USA by workers being paid a livable wage. American Apparel is just as much a manufacturing philosophy as it is a clothing line. People pay 19 bucks a t-shirt at Banana Republic and it is being produced under questionable circumstances. So people that care, may buy from there.

I am 28 years old. I am married, have a house, a respectable job, blah blah blah. I am not a kid. I care where my clothes come from, just like I care about where my food comes from. I'll gladly spend a bit more.

My wife and I also walked around Westminster on Sunday and it was pretty dead. Went into Butterfields and got my dog a cute stuffed bone, some soap and these nice big wooden matches in a cool box. Great for lighting hard to reach candles.

The place had a decent amount of shoppers in it. It has some very cool things, not found in other shops. Expensive, and I did not have a need for a lot of the merchandise, but definitely a great place to browse.

Tazza was packed. Cathers and Coyne was not. Very nice shoes, and I was glad to see they had pretty much the same stuff that their Newport store has. I feared they would dumb down their inventory for Providence, a la Nordstrom. They still may I guess, but I hope the clientele comes along that does buy 350 dollar shoes.

The promise is there. It needs some more stores to allow people to really walk the street. Signage and all helps, but the foundation needs to be there first.

[CtownMikey]

Providence needs to be like cranston and spend money that they dont have. (joke)

But really, why arent they spending the money on friggin snow removal? Buy more trucks, hire more people. Why aren't they requiring businesses to shovel their properties?

Maybe Ari or Thom can answer this... I'd love to hear an actual answer to this.

It could snow again before the new year, maybe just before christmas.

I'd hate to see the Westminster stores fail on the last week before christmas just because they didnt shovel their sidewalks. it would be such an idiotic thing.

wow, this thread just made me mad

Anyways, I think Providence deserves what it gets if it can't take care of simple issues such as dealing with the weather.

[brick]

The promise is there. It needs some more stores to allow people to really walk the street. Signage and all helps, but the foundation needs to be there first.

Grant's Block will definitely help to fill in the space. It was remarkable how open that area felt, almost like Westminster didn't continue beyond that point.

I generally agree with Cotuit that next XMas will be a real litmus test for them.

Liam, you are exactly right about the suspended ceiling in Biggles. I wonder if the fire dept. made them keep it or at least made it easier to permit without changing the ceiling. Just getting rid of the ceiling would do wonders, I think. They bake a mean chocolate chip cookie, though.

As for the snow, I'm not sure how PVD budgets but these December storms can be a real problem for cities that budget around the calendar year...especially when meteorologists are saying that good ol' Mother Nature will take care of the snow within a day or two, which would have been true if it hadn't gone back below freezing Friday afternoon. And it wasn't just a PVD problem, believe me. I-95 was a disaster on Saturday morning, which I think it pretty unacceptable.

[AriPVD]

PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING.

MOST SHOPPERS WILL NOT COME UNTIL WE HAVE UNDERSTANDABLE, AFFORDABLE, ABUNDANT PARKING.

Sad but true.

[brick]

PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING.

MOST SHOPPERS WILL NOT COME UNTIL WE HAVE UNDERSTANDABLE, AFFORDABLE, ABUNDANT PARKING.

Sad but true.

Is there going to be parking as part of Grant's Block?

[markOne]

Grant's Block will definitely help to fill in the space. It was remarkable how open that area felt, almost like Westminster didn't continue beyond that point.

I generally agree with Cotuit that next XMas will be a real litmus test for them.

That empty lot certainly kills the feel of the street. I hope they put up attractive fencing with renderings of what they will be building. That will let folks know that it is not just an empty lot, but that is is actually the site of a nice project. Didn't I also hear rumors about that space being free surface parking for this Christmas season?

Liam, you are exactly right about the suspended ceiling in Biggles. I wonder if the fire dept. made them keep it or at least made it easier to permit without changing the ceiling. Just getting rid of the ceiling would do wonders, I think. They bake a mean chocolate chip cookie, though.

mmmm chocolate. They were indeed quite good, although I wasn't sure if I was supposed to take one of the little milk containers since I didn't see any cups. That would have been perfect. I think all of the few people I saw on Westminster Street this past Sunday must have been UrbanPlanent posters. I also agree about the feel of Biggles. They have some very nice touches in the theamed areas but overall it seemed to lack substance. Like Brick said, it was as thought they could dissapear right after Christmas. We dropped in and picked up a fun toy for our friend

[gregw]

PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING.

MOST SHOPPERS WILL NOT COME UNTIL WE HAVE UNDERSTANDABLE, AFFORDABLE, ABUNDANT PARKING.

Sad but true.

So true. I even know East Siders who won't shop on Thayer St because of parking. They'll go all the way to Warwick or Seekonk to buy a pair of running shoes that they could easily pick up at City Sports.

[provid]

About the snow and sorry to say it again but why in the world does the DID not remove snow from sidewalks with somekind of tractor? They have two yellow things that suck-up trash...why not something that can push snow around?

[eltron]

PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING PARKING.

MOST SHOPPERS WILL NOT COME UNTIL WE HAVE UNDERSTANDABLE, AFFORDABLE, ABUNDANT PARKING.

Sad but true.

This may be true, but so sad and defeatist...

There is another way, though maybe impossible to get to. Just got back from San Francisco, and there were quite literally thousands upon thousands of people walking the streets and shopping the stores in Union Square, nary an affordable or abundant parking space in sight. Its obvious that a destination and a critical mass of people overcomes the pull of the automobile.

It was mindboggling, coming from the sad little city of Providence...

[AriPVD]

well, they also have good public transit and expansive high density areas

[eltron]

well, they also have good public transit and expansive high density areas

Yep. you are completely right.

Providence 70-80 years ago was probably just as bustling downtown though...

and while it would take dozens of years to get back to a critical mass of density, is it worth it to wait? because if we provide these massive amounts of parking, it might forever hold off that density from coming back...

thoughts? not an argument, just discussion points for downtown...

[CtownMikey]

what do you mean by parking holding off higher denstiy?

[Recchia]

Increased parking would make it more convenient to drive to downtown, thus inviting more people to either own a car or to continue living in the suburbs. Both of these favor lower density development. More people owning a car means more places built around cars which means more places built with lower densities that are favorable to cars. And obviously, if it's convenient for people to commute to the city from the suburbs, then they will continue to live there. Basically, in theory, reducing parking = increasing the need for alternative forms of transportation = increasing need for walking/transit = higher densities which can sustain walking/transit.

Plus, having abundant parking (especially surface parking), physically takes up more space, also lowering the immediate density downtown.

[markOne]

I agree that lots of downtown parking can restrict density but we still need to address the parking difficulties faced by people hoping to shop downtown. I would be very open to the idea of remote lots with an interesting, warm, public transportation system possibly marketed as a "shopping system" thus avoiding the stigma

[eltron]

Thanks Recchia, perfectly explained...

Ideally, I would focus on bringing residential, AT ALL LEVELS OF THE MARKET, down there. Once you get the critical mass of people within walking distance (and Fed Hill/West Side and the near East Side certainly qualify), the retail will come naturally and thrive. It really won't rely that much on people driving in from the suburbs at all.

[Cotuit]

The reality of course is that parking isn't really that bad if you're willing to park more than 10 feet from the front door of your destination. It's a matter of letting people know where the parking is. I.E. Duany's proposal of the Snow Street Parking Spine.

Plus, people might be willing to walk more than 10 feet if those 10 feet aren't covered with 2 inches of ice.

[Garris]

The reality of course is that parking isn't really that bad if you're willing to park more than 10 feet from the front door of your destination. It's a matter of letting people know where the parking is. I.E. Duany's proposal of the Snow Street Parking Spine.

Plus, people might be willing to walk more than 10 feet if those 10 feet aren't covered with 2 inches of ice.

Cotuit's exactly right... We could probably do with at least half of the amount of current parking capacity downtown, and as long as it is all concentrated in one or two garages that are clearly, blatently, and attractively marked as the shopping area parking, it would be a great success.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

Grant's Block, the proposed public parking at the Old Public Safety Complex, and the proposed garage behind the Garrahy Courthouse will do wonders for people's perception of Downtown parking.

[Cotuit]

I was walking down Weybosset yesterday and saw them putting a sign above the door of MixItForMe that was perpendicular to the street, and big too!

[Garris]

I was walking down Weybosset yesterday and saw them putting a sign above the door of MixItForMe that was perpendicular to the street, and big too!

About time someone did this!

- Garris

[runawayjim]

since providence used to be jewelry central, i assume there are some pretty good jewelers in teh area. can someone recommend one to me? i'm looking for one that does good repairs and re-setting of diamond rings. any recommendations would be helpful. i'm probably gonna check out the providence diamond company in garden city, but i have a feeling they might charge a bit more (considering they do quite a bit of advertising).

[gregw]

since providence used to be jewelry central, i assume there are some pretty good jewelers in teh area. can someone recommend one to me? i'm looking for one that does good repairs and re-setting of diamond rings. any recommendations would be helpful. i'm probably gonna check out the providence diamond company in garden city, but i have a feeling they might charge a bit more (considering they do quite a bit of advertising).

Reliable Gold in Wayland Square. Not cheap but well regarded.