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IN PROGRESS: Angell Way (K. Gibbs School site)

Cotuit

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gregw Hamlet

gregw

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I've never loved the "Angell" name. I'm sure this has to correspond to an early 17th century settler of Providence, but to the rest of the world, this name applied to anything (Angell Nails, Angell Way, etc) sounds somewhat precious, especially given the recent angel craze nationwide...

- Garris

Sure enough -- Angell is the name of one of those old Providence families (they own L. Sweet Lumber if I'm not mistaken?) and has nothing to do with angels with wings.

Despite its associations with Angell Street, "Angell Way" manages to sound either religious or schlocky.

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Garris Town

Garris

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I'm loving Wayland Minor.

Well, no sooner do we debate this then Armory puts up a ginormous (for Wayland Sq, at least) sign/banner at the corner of Butler and Angell promoting the development ("Style. Luxury. Elegance.") as 77 South Angell, so they will go for the "[street Number] + [street Name]" scheme, at least for marketing.

I'm still guessing the complex will officially have the Angell Way name, as it was slathered all over the architectural renders, landscaping plans, and that's what they called it.

- Garris

PS: By the [Name of First Pet] + [street Where you Grew Up] porn naming game, I would be "Fudgie Rambler" :unsure: (and NO, I can't be called that in GC:PVD).

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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In addition to being able to read, they are known to occasionally have a sense of humor. :D I am sure they can take it.

I'm saying an abrupt name change could be due to the fact that the Angell Soft Way moniker went over like a lead balloon with us. I can't say that's the case, but you never know.

I'm all about Vannoppenstrasse too. :thumbsup:

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Garris Town

Garris

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I'm saying an abrupt name change could be due to the fact that the Angell Soft Way moniker went over like a lead balloon with us. I can't say that's the case, but you never know.

Hehe, funny notion, but I doubt it :lol: . The huge, obviously pre-planned/pre-produced billboard went up the day after we started discussing the issue. Having worked with printers before, I can't think of any with turnaround times that fast! :D

- Garris

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  • 2 months later...
Garris Town

Garris

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Here's a rumor on this one, and I stress rumor in the most rumory way possible:

Supposedly, this building may be significantly delayed or even (gulp) cancelled. The word is that, as the rumor goes, they had no problem pre-selling the most expensive 1.2million+ penthouse units, but that the merely expensive 700-900K units weren't moving quickly.

So they may wait to start (they were supposed to break ground in late September/early October) until they have more sales. If this comes to pass, it would be interesting, as this would represent yet another high profile Providence property where significant delays/cancellations happened after a demolition process.

Again, pure fourth hand rumor...

- Garris

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brick Burg

brick

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One problem with affordable housing is the afremonetioned land price. The second problem is that building materials are just insanely expensive right now. It is almost impossible to build something affordable as new construction. The marginal costs for making a place that appeals to a $500K homebuyer as compared to a $200K homebuyer is not a lot.

This may change as credit contraction continues, of course.

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pete11 Whistle-Stop

pete11

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There are some great points made in this thread. Garris I agree the Philharmonic's initail plan was crap, but like almost every other devleopment plan of the last 5 years, it doesn't matter how you worked the numbers out, it was always more profitable to sell out to developers or if you were going to develop add condos to get the deal financed. Cotuits earlier point is right on, the beauty of Wayland square is its lower density in a quasi-urban enviroment. and is one of Providence's Gems!! This type of development there, is just greed. Brick, I agree but I think land prices are artificially inflated, due to the fictitious "demand" ,as that wanes land prices will crash most, as raw land is a liability. As for building costs we're already seeing some costs (lumber,copper etc..) come down, and with housing starts and new building permits crashing, that trend should continue. I am not going to mention any thoughts about this particular developer. I will on the other hand, stomp my feet and, hold my breath any time there is a subsidy given to anyone to build any residential units that are not affordable to the median resident of that area, the subsidies are adding to the unaffordability that market forces will correct in due time. When I say the "condo craziness", I'm referring to the fact that when we were flush with liquidity, instead of sharpening development, people just "did" condos, thereby stifling other growth.

Garris you describe yourself as pro-development, and I admire your thoughts, and use some of your older posts as a Providence Fodors guide. (I'm not giving you 8 bucks). Having said that: I most assuredly am not "anti-development' quite the opposite, I would like this nonsense to stop, so people will be up in arms about the lack of fostering business in Providence, especially in its city core.

Sorry for the long winded post, I just wanted to take the chance to let everyone know where I was coming from.

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pete11 Whistle-Stop

pete11

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Pete, thanks for the kind words on some of my comments, but I'm confused about your above statement. How is this type of development there greed? It's certainly not unreasonably high density. I can think of a dozen Wayland Sq area buildings off the top of my head that are far higher density than this project, my own 70's-era condo included (13 units in my condo, vs 11 in the proposed Armory condo on a bigger piece of land).

One can argue, as I do actually, that the design of this Armory building is actually much more urban style than many other recent developments around Providence (including the neighboring East Side Commons).

While I believe Armory has gotten subsidies for other rehab projects around the city, they aren't getting a cent for this as far as I know...

- Garris

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brick Burg

brick

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I don't believe that for a second. I just read in an article today that San Jose has added 10,000 new affordable units in the last decade. San Jose being in the Bay Area/Silicon Valley real estate market. Affordable housing can and has been built as new construction time and again.
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jencoleslaw Town

jencoleslaw

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Sure but a lot of that is done through subsidy and IZ. Since the IZ wasn't attached to any of this developers other products (I'll admit I haven't looked up what else they've done) then you can't expect them to build affordable out of the goodness of their hearts. And if you tell them they are only getting permits if they build affordable, then you will be left with an empty lot since they will walk away.

I thought someone here posted that the price for new construction of a 750 sq. ft. unit (or so) was $150K in material and acquisition. So you can spend $150K to build a 750 sq. ft. place to sell for $175K (a $33/s.f gross profit), or you can spend $250K to build a 1000 sq. ft. place to sell for $450K (a $200/s.f. gross). No developer I know is going to choose the former. Of course, as developers are learning there isn't quite as much demand for the $400K units as they thought. But that just means they would stop building.

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