The End of White Flight

[Sky06]

I keep seeing all these articles in Forbes and whatnot talking about how Hampton Roads is where the jobs are at and I wonder to myself "which jobs are they referring too?" I don't doubt there are many great new jobs and opportunities emerging in our area, but I'm curious WHERE they are? Maybe I'll find one for me when I graduate...

[PeninsulaKiddo]

US News and World Report isn't exactly fly-by-night either, but its college rankings, for example, botch and butcher "education" and reduce it to a ratio. So I wouldn't, personally, hold Forbes or USN&WR, or Time to the caliber of Foreign Policy, or MERIP, or the other academic, study-based sources. They're as prone to ratings-oriented fluff as our local papers, they just have more interesting articles.

As I said earlier, there are many great jobs being created in Hampton Roads, but let's look at other factors other than an unemployment rate (which is not a reliable factor in determining quality of life -- I hate when people argue otherwise, e.g. the comparisons of the US and European unemployment rates: the 11% of French citizens who are unemployed live better than the bottom 20% of Americans [subjective statement, I acknowledge - but they have free healthcare and education, whereas some middle-class, employed Americans do not].. /rant). Let's take Norfolk as a case study, as its revitalization is the benchmark for redevelopment efforts in the region. 19.4% of Norfolk's population is below the poverty line and the per capita income ("GDP" - city product/population) is less than $20,000. By any measure, that is absolutely paltry. Now, instead of comparing apples to oranges (e.g. NY), let's compare something similar - Austin, TX. Another benchmark for urban growth and development. Their per capita income is about $24,000, 5% fewer below the poverty line. Interesting also when you consider the average cost of a new home in Austin is $197,000, before the recent national slide in home values no less (numbers courtesy of Wells Fargo).

We're all making blanket generalizations - I am not saying HR is 'insufficient' for all career fields, but for many career fields that I have had a serious interest in (International Law, medical research, high-rise architecture, ha - jack of all trades, I guess) HR is... far from ideal. I'm not saying I couldn't find A job in any of these career fields, but HR has absolutely no competition in the highest rungs of any of these career fields. When was the last time there was a major (read: relevant) conference here regarding trade relations in the Middle East? Or a symposium on new methods for deriving HIV treatments? And frankly, where the Hell is any high-rise architecture that is truly awe-inspiring? We have nice buildings, sure. But they're just... nice . They're nothing you couldn't see in Anywhere, USA. Added to the fact that every time I tell people at conferences I'm from Newport News I get "Ew, Rhode Island?" And that's not the response from people from EastHampton or Islip, they're from Berkeley, Punta Gorda, Dallas, Chicago. Hampton Roads has great qualities, and great opportunities for many, that is for sure. But for those of us who are left out and will not be getting jobs with military or NASA contractors, or in a tumultuous banking sector, it can be extremely frustrating. I hope this changes as HR emerges into international trade (and we ARE becoming a major player in that realm) - we just need to capitalize on it. We're shipping billions of dollars worth of goods between the US and China - establish Chinese industry here... Get their banks and other companies to invest heavily here and we'll hit the ground running. Just one of a few routes we could (and should) take. As our reputation grows it'll draw in those innovative minds. Perhaps I'm just too impatient.

[Telmnstr]

I happen to know smart people that went from low pay, mediocre jobs to work with some of the top names in the tech field.

Name names? NAME NAMES?

eBay (from $35K in Norfolk to Senior architects), Veritas (from like $40K in Virginia Beach to over $100K in AZ overnight), MTV, Paypal, Facebook, etc.

You need more? Those companies have impact on the world.

As far as jobs, a friend recently graduated from Virginia Tech. He quickly got a $65K offer in Syracuse, NY. He wanted Hampton Roads, but wasn't getting SQUAT. The cost of living in Syracuse is lower than HR, too. But he ended up going to work for Cisco in another state.

*Shrug* Don't blame me.

[vbhokie]

As far as jobs, a friend recently graduated from Virginia Tech. He quickly got a $65K offer in Syracuse, NY. He wanted Hampton Roads, but wasn't getting SQUAT. The cost of living in Syracuse is lower than HR, too. But he ended up going to work for Cisco in another state.

[NSUREDD]

I taught at ODU and most of the students in my classes left the area after graduation. Most say that Hampton Roads lacks the opprotunities they seek for advancement. Although I have had no problems finding a job in Hampton Roads with undergraduate and graduate degrees from Norfolk State, the better offers for my services have all come from outside the area. If my wife and I did not own business here in the area I would have to move away to make the same income.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Considering that Hampton Roads has I-64 dead end here and not connect us directly with a north or south bound interstate, considering the unique/counterproductive political structure of seven contiguous cities, and considering the port and military focus of the economy, one could also be justifiably proud of this area and what it has managed to accomplish and develop into.

The bigger cities will always have higher pay and a higher cost of living, in general. They will also have more varied and diverse job opportunities. They pay more because they need to, to attrack the calibre of talent they require. Apparently there must be an oversupply of talent in this area keeping salary levels down.

The local economy needs to continue to develop and add more jobs, expecially more interesting and challenging and well paid jobs. Until that, talent flight will continue to some degree. It no doubt occurs in all small and medium size cities as well.

[vbhokie]

In my experience as a recent Virginia Tech grad, it seems that most people from hampton roads would like to return to the area but just can't seem to find the jobs. I'm not sure how it is at other schools but at Tech, both Richmond and Northern Virginia have their own job fairs sponsored by their local alumni chapters. Our alumni chapter doesn't want anything to do with a job fair. It doesn't really seem that the area companies care to recruit as much as other regions. All the fortune 1000 companies from Richmond and Northern Virginia were always at our job fairs but none of the local companies cared to show up. The one time that I did see Norfolk Southern there they were recruiting for their Roanoke office.

I don't think that there is as much of a lack of jobs in the area as a lack of awareness of the jobs that exist. Almost everyone that I knew of that was looking for a job who was from a different area had never even considered coming to the area. Every major area around us is helped by having a clear focus on what they bring to the table. NOVA has DC and just a huge amount of opportunities. Charlotte is a major banking and finance center and Richmond just has a much better sense of itself than us which is definitely helped by their EIGHT fortune 500 companies compared to our ONE.

[scm]

Considering that Hampton Roads has I-64 dead end here and not connect us directly with a north or south bound interstate, ...

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Cop out -- rationalization at it's worst. There are plenty of vibrant, growing cities that don't connect to a N/S interstate -- Boulder, CO, Santa Barbara, CA and Charleston, SC come quickly to mind.

[MissySchmidt]

And there are these business people and professionals here who are just so content with the status quo.

Increased research sounds great. How long with that take to get, and then how long for it to take hold? Let's get started and stop being mediocre!

[rusthebuss]

I'm tired of people talking about it and not doing anything. You know how things get done? People get together and make things happen. We are need to start a group that will change things. People have to want to change things. We need to people that, like the ones on this site, to make this change. We can't rely on the cities and state anymore. We see what they do. The people have to make the change

[MissySchmidt]

I'm tired of people talking about it and not doing anything. You know how things get done? People get together and make things happen. We are need to start a group that will change things. People have to want to change things. We need to people that, like the ones on this site, to make this change. We can't rely on the cities and state anymore. We see what they do. The people have to make the change

[rusthebuss]

I know of a few groups working on a citizen-initiated process for just this type of "change" now. Anyone interested?

[Case]

As someone who is not from HR originally (not military) I have notice that locals (and quasi-locals) wishing to leave have a tendency to see other cities and regions through rose colored glasses. Trust me, those of us from bigger cities which "have it all" know that the grass it not always greener. Yes, more jobs are advertised in some places but remember there are 300+ applicants everyday for every position. Plus, you think the downtown tunnel is bad... wait til you have your first 2 hour commute home, then realize that's normal.

HR has all the making of great metro... its only lacking in leadership and regional pride. (I realize those are big hurdles)

This thread should probably be renamed to Brain Drain or Youth Flight. The true affects of "white flight" on a community have not been discussed here. This region is surprising light on rash racial upheaval. If the attitudes of may other cities were at play in HR Norfolk, Portsmouth, Hampton would all be at least 60% black. Trust me, its a rare thing for working class or even poor whites and blacks to live in the same neighborhoods but that is seen quite a bit in HR.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

No business people I know are content with the status quo. As for your comment to "get started and stop being mediocre", what do you suggest?

[scm]

And I don't believe you head south from any of these three and encounter the level of poverty that exists in much of eastern North Carolina.

[skylinefan]

As someone who is not from HR originally (not military) I have notice that locals (and quasi-locals) wishing to leave have a tendency to see other cities and regions through rose colored glasses. Trust me, those of us from bigger cities which "have it all" know that the grass it not always greener. Yes, more jobs are advertised in some places but remember there are 300+ applicants everyday for every position. Plus, you think the downtown tunnel is bad... wait til you have your first 2 hour commute home, then realize that's normal.

HR has all the making of great metro... its only lacking in leadership and regional pride. (I realize those are big hurdles)

This thread should probably be renamed to Brain Drain or Youth Flight. The true affects of "white flight" on a community have not been discussed here. This region is surprising light on rash racial upheaval. If the attitudes of may other cities were at play in HR Norfolk, Portsmouth, Hampton would all be at least 60% black. Trust me, its a rare thing for working class or even poor whites and blacks to live in the same neighborhoods but that is seen quite a bit in HR.

[MissySchmidt]

Perhaps my sarcasm was too subtle. I was reacting to the thoughts of "scm" with regard to the "status quo" and "mediocre" comments. Please take that up with him, or her.