Zoning Board of Review

[CtownMikey]

URI needs to expand its pharmacy program even more than it currently is... I think that would help

[Frankie811]

URI needs to expand its pharmacy program even more than it currently is... I think that would help

With Amgen expanding into West Greenwich, I think we can look forward to some sort of corporate/state/educational programs.

[Cotuit]

City planning meeting gets heated. The Planning Department withdraws all but seven of the amendments proposed for the city's Comprehensive Plan in response to pressure from neighborhood groups. [ProJo.com]

I had no idea this meeting was happenning, which it seems some of the attendees were complaining about. Thom, you gotta let us know, we'd have given ya a hand.

[Garris]

City planning meeting gets heated. The Planning Department withdraws all but seven of the amendments proposed for the city's Comprehensive Plan in response to pressure from neighborhood groups. [ProJo.com]

I had no idea this meeting was happenning, which it seems some of the attendees were complaining about. Thom, you gotta let us know, we'd have given ya a hand.

Agreed... I had no idea this was happening either... <sigh>

With these issues plus the issue of the historic structures tax credit, there are some big, future determining issues going on!

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

City planning meeting gets heated. The Planning Department withdraws all but seven of the amendments proposed for the city's Comprehensive Plan in response to pressure from neighborhood groups. [ProJo.com]

I had no idea this meeting was happenning, which it seems some of the attendees were complaining about. Thom, you gotta let us know, we'd have given ya a hand.

you would not have wanted to be there. honest.

but, if you're a glutton for punishment, it is happening all over again on Tuesday, 4 pm in the City Council Chambers.

[Cotuit]

Mayor reverses on zoning code revision process. After a year of work and more than 50 public meetings, the code will take a back seat as the city moves to update its Comprehensive Plan. [ProJo.com]

[Recchia]

On the downside, he said, until the Comprehensive Plan is complete and the zoning code updated, the Zoning Board of Review will be guiding development in the city on a variance-by-variance basis -- "which is not optimal," Cicilline said.

What a pain in the ass. So how long til we have a new zoning code now?

[jencoleslaw]

What a pain in the ass. So how long til we have a new zoning code now?

i'm going with "forevah"

[Cotuit]

What a pain in the ass. So how long til we have a new zoning code now?

All I know is, if I have to listen to crazy tree lady and the Friends Over India Point BANANAs for another year I'm going to scream.

[Garris]

All I know is, if I have to listen to crazy tree lady and the Friends Over India Point BANANAs for another year I'm going to scream.

I'll do it for you... AAAAAAHHHH!!!! That sound you hear is all of the air starting to escape from the Providence development balloon...

Think of our headlines of late...

- No zoning code...

- Repeal of historic tax credits...

As I said in my recent e-mail to our elected representatives, this seems like collective civic suicide...

- Garris

[Jerry2]

Oh. Here we go again. The liberal Rhode Island politicians are at it again. Cicilline is selling himself short for the sake of the voters. Forget about running this city like a business. We will run it to the ground to appease certain groups of people. This is really disheartening and coupled with the historic tax breakdown is detrimental to the future of Providence. I used to think that the south was a great place to visit and would never live there. Now I question why I couldn't live there and visit here. I could pick up a transfer to Jacksonville or Charlotte and be in cities with a much more progressive future. It's much easier to build into developments than build out of old developments. What a waste !

[jencoleslaw]

All I know is, if I have to listen to crazy tree lady and the Friends Over India Point BANANAs for another year I'm going to scream.

gee. thanks.

[Cotuit]

gee. thanks.

Are you the crazy tree lady?

[jencoleslaw]

Are you the crazy tree lady?

probably.

[Cotuit]

probably.

I'm talking about a very specific tree lady that was at one of the Providence 2020 meetings. She thought that Route 95 through Providence should be planted with trees instead of any buildings, so that it would be 'pretty' like Route 95 through South County.

I'm all about trees, but I'll be damned if we plant trees along Route 95 while the actual city streets that people live and walk on remain treeless, especially streets like Atwells. After talking to Thom Deller though I've come to find out there is a federal line item for planting trees along urban highways, and Providence has applied for the money. It won't be at the expense of any other federal money, it's money that can only be used for planting trees along urban highways.

I want to see more trees in the city, but not instead of new housing and business, that's why the tree lady is crazy.

[jencoleslaw]

I'm talking about a very specific tree lady that was at one of the Providence 2020 meetings. She thought that Route 95 through Providence should be planted with trees instead of any buildings, so that it would be 'pretty' like Route 95 through South County.

I'm all about trees, but I'll be damned if we plant trees along Route 95 while the actual city streets that people live and walk on remain treeless, especially streets like Atwells. After talking to Thom Deller though I've come to find out there is a federal line item for planting trees along urban highways, and Providence has applied for the money. It won't be at the expense of any other federal money, it's money that can only be used for planting trees along urban highways.

I want to see more trees in the city, but not instead of new housing and business, that's why the tree lady is crazy.

whew.

i must be a different crazy tree lady.

[Cotuit]

whew.

i must be a different crazy tree lady.

You're probably the 'passionate tree lady.'

[bloodyrocker]

You're probably the 'passionate tree lady.'

She is 'the passionate tree lady' and Providence is lucky to have her. We need someone like her over here in the bucket. badly.

Hey Jen! (this is Jason Kendall by the way)

[jencoleslaw]

daylight is the best disinfectant. I believe folks would be more open to change and density and height if so many of the developments actually were vetted through neighborhoods first, rather deals made in back rooms of municipal offices and then the residents of the area hearing rumors and seeing legal notices in the paper as an announcement of a project.

so many of these new projects, like this one, like MetroLofts and others are firmly in residential neighborhoods where people live are too often a huge and scary surprise to people, and anyone who thinks that neighbors won't get ramped up when a big shot developer and their posse of lawyers come to town and plunk down an 18 story building right next to them clearly doesn't know anything about human nature and folks' attachment to 'place.'

and calling the inhabitants of such well established neighborhoods rubes and idiots and NIMBYs for not understanding the importance of density and height doesn't do much to bridge the gap between neighbors and developers.

There are good ways to present to the community, and there are bad ways. Unfortunately it has been my experience that too often, the bad way is the standard.

your milage may vary.

[Garris]

and calling the inhabitants of such well established neighborhoods rubes and idiots and NIMBYs for not understanding the importance of density and height doesn't do much to bridge the gap between neighbors and developers.

There are good ways to present to the community, and there are bad ways. Unfortunately it has been my experience that too often, the bad way is the standard.

your milage may vary.

I've been quite vocal about this issue on the boards before, but I really do believe there is a group of hard-core, vocal, completely intransient individuals representing several neighborhoods around town who will never, ever be in favor of making Providence more dense, tall, or urban. Developers could wine and dine these individuals and even put the pen in their hand to design the building themselves. It still wouldn't change their mind. This group wants to turn back the clock to the 1950's or 30's and they view Providence as a nice, little big-small town. Like Barrington with better restaurants (just not open too late, and with no liquor licences!).

I've lived in areas of the country where development happens literally overnight with no appreciable announcement at all and no community resistance (often these communities are thriving on the growth). Your only notice of the prefab TGI Friday's they're going to put up in that horse field over there is when you get the promotional coupon in the mail. A month later, you can dine... Same with condos, office buildings, etc...

I've also lived in communities that have put such draconian limitations on development and where there is such huge, entrenched community special interests that literally no development ever happens there at all. Developers just don't want the fight and steer clear. And these communities then wonder why their tax base is so small.

We should be using the desirability of this area to demand the best skyscrapers, the best density, the best urban neighborhoods. This is the future. But instead many in the city continue to fight the existential battle of:

- No height

- No density

- No vibrancy

- No change...

I understand your point Jen, and I truely wish you were right and it was just as simple as these development groups being more political. But I've just been to too many meetings and just know too many people who fit this stereotype who are in high profile positions...

This is why we really need a progressive urban advocacy group in Providence to serve as a counterweight to these individuals...

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

and i agree with Garris that Providence Residents mirror the Providence City Council with their feifdoms. Many are only interested in their back yard (or water front or main street) and rarely advocate for what happens outside their neighborhood's borders.

But there is an inherent distrust of the system, for obvious reasons here, and when, even after a regime change, there are still whiffs of back room deals and variances on variances on variances given out like dog biscuits and lollypops at the bank drive up window, you can't expect people to roll over and embrace change. A fish rots from the head, you know...

Anyone who has gone to a zoning board of review meeting in the last few years, or a licensing board meeting has a right to be concerned. And as someone who sees a lot of major land development projects in their early form i know darn well that there is plenty of room for compromise--on everyone's part. And i definately do not see enough negotiation and compromise.

Providence is a stubborn, proud town and until developers and elected officials figure out how to connect with the people in a way that is open and flexible, the epic battles over things like density and height will continue to plague the process.

[runturtlerun]

Garris, let me ask you

[Jerry2]

There is almost a hypocritical selfish nature to people that come out against projects like these. The majority of the people that have moved to Prov. due to its resurgence are transients. How many people on this board will be here in 5 years? My guess is less than half...and many of the people that come out against these projects are people that are not vested in the future of Providence. How many people have lived on Federal Hill for that long to complain about development? The Italians left years ago and the area has been rundown forever. Federal Hill is a dressed-up slum. You would think that any long-time residents that remain remember the Hill from the 50's and would welcome new development to the area. However, I feel ( in my opinion ) that the real people that come out against these projects are worried about minor inconveniences that new development woud bring. i.e. parking issues....and I don't think it's the old-timers complaining.

[eltron]

There is almost a hypocritical selfish nature to people that come out against projects like these.

You have thrown out the word "hypocritical" several times in this thread, but what exactly is hypocritical about opposition to a project that is wildly out of scale with its surroundings, ugly, and SO inconsistant with zoning (and even under the new zoning would need variances) that its just laughable? Yeah, the neighborhood needs work, but this one tower sure as hell is not gonna make it better, and it will make it worse in many ways.

How bout we end with the rude, confrontational, and unproductive posts....?

[Cotuit]

but not a density that is so totally out of character with the existing area that it threatens to take it over.

Since the area between Dean Street and the Service Road is chiefly occupied by auto body shops and surface parking, what exactly is the character that is being threatened with take over?

I can understand the resistance to the height of Belmonte Castello as it is well within an existing neighborhood, not on the highway (though it is very close to a highway) But a project like MetroLofts, or 333 West Fountain will only serve to enhance the neighborhoods further west and connect them to Downcity.