Is Charlotte Gay Friendly?

[Charlotteman]

YOU ARE AS FREE AS YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE!!! Anywhere, anytime. This "straight acting" stuff makes me ill. Living in secret makes me very very sick...the closet is way way in the past, and anyone who still embraces it is the biggest fool imaginable.

So what if people in public stare when two guys hold hands, or two gals? That is THEIR PROBLEM. Cowering in fear of what "straight people think" just means you're afraid to be who you are!!!

There are FEDERAL LAWS in place to protect gays from harrassment. It's called Hate Crimes Act. If someone harrasses two guys for holding hands in public, they are on the threshold of breaking a federal law.

But if guys held hands and gals held hands, as frequently as straights do, there wouldn't be any staring! The tendancy of gays to want to "fit in" by dressing conservatively, being mousy and quiet, fearful...gays like that are taking away their own freedom! Not the ignorant rednecks!

And I hate this stuff about "I don't like seeing public displays of affection, no matter if it's gay or straight" That is such garbage. Why is it offensive to kiss in public, hug, hold hands???How could that be offensive? Or is it just an excuse for not holding hands, so the "fitting in" can continue. YUCK!

If all gays in Charlotte (and everywhere else) started ACTING NORMAL for what is normal for them---i.e. being who they really are, and not some imitation of what heteros think men should be and women should be.....then there wouldn't be any homophobia. Hetero society would see with their owns how many of us there are!!!!!

I would hold hands with my partner in any city, anytime, anywhere. I dare ANYONE to start any trouble with me:)

[krazeeboi]

YOU ARE AS FREE AS YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE!!! Anywhere, anytime. This "straight acting" stuff makes me ill. Living in secret makes me very very sick...the closet is way way in the past, and anyone who still embraces it is the biggest fool imaginable.

I don't think it's feasible to paint every gay person who still lives "in the closet" with such a broad brush. While I don't claim to be an expert or anything on gay culture, many gays and lesbians could still be in the closet for a number of reasons, a big one being that they fear rejection from friends and family. I'm not saying that this is either right or wrong on the part of those friends or family members, but that's the way it simply is for some people.

And I hate this stuff about "I don't like seeing public displays of affection, no matter if it's gay or straight" That is such garbage. Why is it offensive to kiss in public, hug, hold hands???How could that be offensive? Or is it just an excuse for not holding hands, so the "fitting in" can continue. YUCK!

I may have mentioned this in this thread; at any rate, I'm not really one for public displays of affection (gay or straight) beyond what I deem "simple" things like holding hands, hugging, and "light" kissing (i.e., non-French). It's not offensive to me, I just don't care much for it. It's a personal preference that I force on no one. I would suggest that you not demonize those who disagree with your stance on it.

[spectacle21]

I have mixed emotions about this one. I think Charlotte is more tolerant then it is accepting. There is a big difference. Its not that people care to much here if your gay, but god forbid you "shove it in their face".

Having said that Ive seen lots of couples holding hands at Concord Mills(i work there).

The younger generations are more accepting whereas others may be just tolerant of gays. Thats just my opinion.

I'd have to agree with Skyybutter. Charlotte isn't one big pitchfork-&-firestick mob towards the gay community....just as long as it strays from extravagant public displays. Now, as a gay male myself....I can definitely say that the overall climate of Charlotte is not really gay "friendly." I put "friendly" in quotes, b/c once again...the city doesn't exactly portray a "We-Hate-Gays" mentality. I was born & raised here in a strict, devout Christian household & I always felt the need to hate many things about myself growing up. It wasn't until a lil' over two years ago (Senior Year - high school) that I realized that I have to live life for my own happiness and people are just going to have to get over it b/c.....IT AIN'T NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!

I'm a college sophomore in Atlanta now & the two cities contrast greatly when it comes to coexisting with the gay community. Arguably (don't jump me for saying this guys...lol), Atlanta is the gay mecca of the country right now....especially with its strong & large African-American gay presence. I was shocked to see gay billboards speckled throughout Midtown last year! It was an extreme CULTURE SHOCK for me! When I say gay billboards....they were depicting suggestive acts b/t men. Midtown is a thriving gay district & there are many events & social scenes that occur throughout the year that make Atlanta almost a lil' too gay friendly...lol. In my opinion, I don't think Charlotte will EVER be as open to displaying gay culture in an Atlanta fashion...seeing that the city would rather attract a specific class of people uptown---on another topic. But, the city is forward enough to realize that its citizens is a diversified lot that deserves a voice in the community just as much as the bible-thumpers raging against our livelihood.

[waccamatt]

YOU ARE AS FREE AS YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE!!! Anywhere, anytime. This "straight acting" stuff makes me ill. Living in secret makes me very very sick...the closet is way way in the past, and anyone who still embraces it is the biggest fool imaginable.

So what if people in public stare when two guys hold hands, or two gals? That is THEIR PROBLEM. Cowering in fear of what "straight people think" just means you're afraid to be who you are!!!

There are FEDERAL LAWS in place to protect gays from harrassment. It's called Hate Crimes Act. If someone harrasses two guys for holding hands in public, they are on the threshold of breaking a federal law.

But if guys held hands and gals held hands, as frequently as straights do, there wouldn't be any staring! The tendancy of gays to want to "fit in" by dressing conservatively, being mousy and quiet, fearful...gays like that are taking away their own freedom! Not the ignorant rednecks!

And I hate this stuff about "I don't like seeing public displays of affection, no matter if it's gay or straight" That is such garbage. Why is it offensive to kiss in public, hug, hold hands???How could that be offensive? Or is it just an excuse for not holding hands, so the "fitting in" can continue. YUCK!

If all gays in Charlotte (and everywhere else) started ACTING NORMAL for what is normal for them---i.e. being who they really are, and not some imitation of what heteros think men should be and women should be.....then there wouldn't be any homophobia. Hetero society would see with their owns how many of us there are!!!!!

I would hold hands with my partner in any city, anytime, anywhere. I dare ANYONE to start any trouble with me:)

I understand your points and I am as out as anyone, which is well-evidenced by my Pride pics on my website. I do agree with Krazee, though, about public displays of affection. A peck here and a peck there is fine and when I've dated guys who were as out as I am (unfortunately few and far between) I've done that wherever I've felt like it. Hand holding, etc. while walking down the street is just a bit over the top to me whenever I see straight or gay people doing it. I happen to believe that couples who exhibit excessive PDA usually have one or both partners that are insecure. A spontaneous kiss is awesome, but doing something gratuitously, IMO, is just over the top.

[monsoon]

Speaking of: In the newer version of I believe the Damron road atlas I was flipping through at B&N was a big ad for one of Charlotte's "Leather" establishments. The headline said "CHARLOTTE: Banking center of America/ Leather capitol of the South" Now if that isn't paradox right there... There is an expression that the further one way a culture goes, the further the other way those who rebel against it go. Paradox can have a charm of it's own. You could look it up if you don't believe me.

Well you know that underground Gay culture exists under the radar screen in most places, Charlotte included. There are drag shows, drag contests, leather conventions, preppy dance clubs etc etc all under the shadow of Charlotte's banking towers. I think it is more a testimate that for most people in this city it's more live & let live than a contradiction or paradox. This is a city that is very well off financially and in order to be in that position it has to attract talent that includes many that belong to Gay and Lesbian community. They are going to assiminate into the community here, but we have always had our own places to go to as well as the advert you are looking at indicates. It's a sign that CLT really does have a fairly large and active Gay community.

A paradox only exists in the mind.

[Charlotteman]

I'm glad my post garnered some interest:)

When I said holding hands, etc, I meant in a normal fashion. Simple affection. Not something contrived to shock people:)

And I still don't understand why holding hands in public could be offensive, if it is gay or straight. I personally don't see holding hands or a peck on the cheek to be a PDA~~

I've been "out" since 1972 and I came out in Charlotte! At the time there were only two gar bars in town, and a cruise bar. Oleen's, the Scorpio, and the Brass Rail. At the time there weren't very many gay bars in the state. Asheville had the Flaming Embers. There was a gay bar in Greensboro, that I can't remember the name of. And one in Wilmington. So that is four for the entire state.

At the time Charlotte was thought to be the most liberal/progressive city in the state. No other area in the state was even remotely as enlightened about gays as Charlotte. It was an exciting time to come out--the begining of the sexual revolution. And the social scene in Charlotte toward gays was quite positive. Of course every Southern city has rednecks, but almost everyone I met at the time was gay- positive. The cops weren't very nice to gay people back then, but the average everyday joe on the street seemed okay with gays:)

Of course this was before the religious fanatical right wing surfaced in the South. Everything was open back then. Charlotte had open prostitution, with massage parlors all over town with big lit signs "The Executive" etc People smoked pot in public(if no cops were around) There were adult bookstores EVERYWHERE open 24 hours a day. That was a liberal, wonderful time to be in Charlotte! hee hee

I was an underage teenager but the bar owners at the time let me in anyway:) Does anyone remember Oleen???

[Charlotteman]

Oh by the way, I've lived in Seattle since 1995. Gay positive even in the far flung suburbs. Blue State to the max:)

[monsoon]

Does anyone remember Oleen???

When I moved here in the very late 70s, there was also the Odyssey, in downtown CLT, but I did not go to it until it moved to Eastway & the Plaza as I was not old enough. I am told there was a bar right in the center of CLT in the 70s, but I don't remember the name as this was before my time. There was also TAGS on the Plaza which opened in 1980 and remained there throughout most of the decade until the owner died during Charlotte's first AIDs epidemic.

However the 3 you mention were the long term places and The Scorpio still exists, making it one of the oldest dance clubs in the entire country despite being burned to the ground twice. The Brass Rail closed in 2001 or 2002 and did not re-open due to some scandal that occured when a web camera was turned on in the back section of the bar. (you can imagine the rest)

Oleen's bar in South End was closed because the land became too valuable and I am told the owner of the property would not renew the lease that Oleen held apparently for decades. I never met Oleen, but I did know the original owners of The Scorpio and went there before it's first and second burnings. If you have not been to CLT since 1995, you would not recognize the area where Oleen's, the original Scorpio, and Club South were located. It's a super yuppie enclave now though Stevens/Liasons is still there, but it is no longer a restaurant.

[appatone]

There are drag shows, drag contests,

Speaking of that, there is a rumor that the musical "Pageant" may replace "Menopause, The Musical" at the Capri Theatre for an open ended run. If anyone here is familiar with the theatre scene in town you may know that last year "Pageant" was a huge money maker for Off-Tryon Theatre Co. and that they had their theatre over booked every night for a month with that show. During that same month Actor's Theatre sold out everynight with "Take Me Out" another gay themed show, and Barebones had a huge success with "Psycho Beach Party" featuring it's own drag queen and other gay characters. I think many of the of the local theatre companies are very pro-gay as they are usually rewarded with donations by the gay community for bringing these sort of shows to the stage. Especially Off-Tryon which this year produced "Torch Song Trilogy" and a show called Intimate Epistles" which was a gay love story penned by a local gay playwrite.

[Charlotteman]

Gosh these memories are fading~~hee hee that was such a long time ago!

Yes I met the hetero owners of the original Scorpio when it first opened on South Blvd in 1972. The wife was a real doll, with bright dyed red hair (looked amazingly like Amanda Blake) I can't remember her name, but her husband's name was Oakey I think. She knew we were underage but she let us in anyway, she was so nice to us crazy kids! None of us drank beer, but we were in a bar afterall:)

I remember Oakey had a gay brother, who eventually opened his own gay bar, the Cruisebah which was open about a year in 1975. It was on Moorehead.

Oleen and Don, the owners of Oleen's, I knew much better. I talked with Oleen on many occassions, and she even called my mom in Hickory one time to ask if I was okay since she hadn't seen me in a while:) Oleen wasn't originally from Charlotte I don't think. She didn't have a Charlotte accent, and neither did Don. Oleen was a whisky tenor type with a cigarette permanently attached to her fingers--that and a cocktail:) She called EVERYONE "baby". She was very thin and wore garish platinum blond wigs, and had bags under her eyes big enough to carry 4 people's clothing!

Don was proportedly in the mafia, and he owned all kinds of porno shops around Charlotte, and TONS of massage parlors (which were thinly veiled prostitution houses) The 1970s was a liberal time. No one seemed to care back then, that Charlotte was wide open.

I always thought it odd that the owners of most gay bars in the 1970s were heteros. A month or so before I came out, a bar called the Speak Easy had just closed. A hetero man named Packard owned it. 6 months before I totally came out, there was a bar on Moorehead called the Music Box (this was in 1971) The first gay bar I ever went to. It was near the Club Charlotte Baths at the time.

A little walk back through time, Charlotte is where I grew up. I will always ADORE Charlotte:)

[waccamatt]

I've gone out in Charlotte a little bit through the years and remember Scorpios, Oleens and Liaisons. In Columbia, back in the 50's and 60's I've been told (I'm not quite that old), gay bars had to have 2 doors so that you couldn't see in from the street. Now our county sheriff does drag to raise money for charity. Things have really changed through the years.

And I still don't understand why holding hands in public could be offensive, if it is gay or straight. I personally don't see holding hands or a peck on the cheek to be a PDA~~

I don't consider that to be offensive. It's the gratuitous over-the-top kind of thing like you see with some high school kids, etc. that I see as uncool in public.

[LJinPA]

I truly believe economy has a lot to do with things, not just Charlotte but anywhere. It seems Charlotte's economy is doing OK, I mean it went from one or 2 threads on SSP 6 yrs ago to 19 pages on one neighborhoods projects today. I havent been there since 1998 and wonder how much i'd recognize the place at street level.

Anyway, I feel that when the economy is good and people have money in their pockets, meaningful and dignified jobs, and therefore a sense of control over their own lives, they're not going to have as much incentive to judge other people for things that don't affect them personally. Nor would they have the time or the motivation to worry about who is getting "special privilages" or an extra chocolate chip in their cookie that they didn't get. I feel a good economy, meaningful jobs... could contribute more to tolerance than just "political correctness". If people have a "sense of purpose" they're less likely to be looking for scapegoats.

As far as the str8 acting stuff, I see so many profiles in gay chat rooms saying "no fats or fems", yet the people who are so self riteous about their "butchness" are sometimes the biggest queens themselves behind their "butch" veneer. Str8 acting means they went hunting w dad when they were 14 and they wear Abercrombie or got hit on by a drunk hag hag. Granted I'm not exactly attracted physically to a guy who looks like Boy George, but fake machismo can be just as corny.

And het if anything look at how far this thread titled "Is Charlotte gay friendly?" has moved along so rapidly. Look how many pages it's on already. Would a thread titled "Is Peoria gay friendly?" have gotten as much attention? That alone says something positive about Charlotte's direction. Yeah Charlotte anti-gay side has been addressed, but just the fact that it's even being addressed could be a sign of progress.

[monsoon]

Yes I met the hetero owners of the original Scorpio when it first opened on South Blvd in 1972. The wife was a real doll, with bright dyed red hair (looked amazingly like Amanda Blake) I can't remember her name, but her husband's name was Oakey I think. She knew we were underage but she let us in anyway, she was so nice to us crazy kids! None of us drank beer, but we were in a bar afterall:)

Marion and Oakey Tyson. I believe they also owned Tyson's Equipment Rental on South Blvd for decades. No doubt you remember Carmen the lesbian door guard. Actually she was a very nice person that had to put up with a bunch of drunk people every night.

It is funny about the 1970s. In the 60s prior to Stonewall, the police would put Gays in jail for simply dancing together. In the 1970s it was much more live and let live in most of the country, including Charlotte, towards Gays than it is even now. Then 1980s came and disco disappeared overnight, and was replaced by Reaganism, conservatism, AIDs, and religious activism. Darker times for sure. The 1970s had its problems but I think in general people of all demographics were still making an attempt to get along. Now everybody is at each other's throats.

[waccamatt]

Marion and Oakey Tyson. I believe they also owned Tyson's Equipment Rental on South Blvd for decades. No doubt you remember Carmen the lesbian door guard. Actually she was a very nice person that had to put up with a bunch of drunk people every night.

It is funny about the 1970s. In the 60s prior to Stonewall, the police would put Gays in jail for simply dancing together. In the 1970s it was much more live and let live in most of the country, including Charlotte, towards Gays than it is even now. Then 1980s came and disco disappeared overnight, and was replaced by Reaganism, conservatism, AIDs, and religious activism. Darker times for sure. The 1970s had its problems but I think in general people of all demographics were still making an attempt to get along. Now everybody is at each other's throats.

Ahhh, the good old days.

[Charlotteman]

YES! Marion! Her name was on the tip of my tongue, thanks for reminding me:) She was a VERY NICE LADY. And she was actually a Scorpio, hence the name of the club.

I don't remember Carmen, dammit! hee hee

Do you remember any of the cast of characters at Oleen's 1972-1978? Barbara, the emcee of the ubiquitous drag shows. Trip Presley, the Elvis drag king. Mad Margaret, Page, two elderly and eccentric hag hags. Vickie Queen, Chuck Queen, stars of their own drag show group that played exclusively at Oleens (the Queen City Gayettes) Alicia Taylor, a Liz Taylor knockoff. Scott and Ted, two redneck ruffian gays that pretended to be bi. The transexuals Marilyn, Donna, Dianne, Gail. Boom Boom. So many characters back then. Eccentricity was the name of the game back then!

[Charlotteman]

Oops I didn't mean to say Boom Boom was a transexual. She was just a campy large drag queen:)

Oh and btw when I first came out, the word around the campfire was that the Charlotte police picked up gays for no reason at all, in the middle of the night, and drove them to far out secluded places, and made them get out of the policecar.

In 1975 a cop in Charlotte threatened to kick my ass all over the room (my motel room) because I wouldn't tell him where my bf was, who was suspected in a crime (that I had NOTHING to do with of course) Real professional, yes?

But in 1978, I was involved in an accident at Freedom Park and my car was totalled (not my fault) I was dazed from the impact of the wreck, and the cop that responded was so so so nice. He let my friend and I ride in his car for a couple hours so we wouldn't have to wait at the bus station for my dad. (on Trade Street, at the time not a safe place) I'll never forget how damn nice he was, took us on a tour of the early Fourth Ward projects and told us about the neighborhood's history, was very kind and concerned that I was dizzy etc.

I guess there are good cops and bad cops. But I personally don't trust any cops~

[monsoon]

Unfortunately now that I think about it, Oleens wasn't exactly my type of bar so I never went there. I would not have been old enough to go in the time period that you mention so I don't have any of those memories. I was over there one night for some reason and one of my drag queen friends where having a fight outside on South Blvd. They were throwing curses and their high heels at each other. LOL.

I do remember Boom Boom from Scorpio very well. His real name is Ricky and during the day owned a BBQ restaurant, along with his brothers, and slung BBQ to people in all walks of life. This was quite a contrast from his other "persona". lol That particular restaurant, aside from being one of the few excellent BBQ houses in Charlotte, also had the best baked beans in the Piedmont. Executives and construction workers would be in there eating side by side and it was usually packed during lunch hours. Another name I remember was Grand Prix. haha.

Indeed about the CLT cops towards Gays. I have detailed my own experience earlier in this thread.

[voyager12]

Overall, Charlotte seems to have an ambivalent attitude towards us homosexuals. The city is too professional to be overtly homophobic. Here in Dilworth and Plaza Midwood/Elizabeth we are accepted and appreciated. I have had neighbors tell me that they are proud that the gays have a presence in the area because it illustrates that all of Charlotte is not closeminded and welcomes diversity and all the benefits it brings. If only such areas were not so small. I don't see the attitude changing towards gay acceptance outside of the city neighborhoods. The suburbs attract typical conservative fundamentalist Christian families to tract houses like bees to honey.

[monsoon]

The suburbs attract typical conservative fundamentalist Christian families to tract houses like bees to honey.

That is actually an inaccurate characterization of Charlotte. I know Gays & Lesbians living in every single part of the city and religious conservatives living in Dilworth. Charlotte is a city of suburbs, including Dilworth, whose only distinction these days over other areas is its exclusiveness. People of color, low income people, and numerous Gay establishments were all run out of Dilworth years ago because they didn't fit in. Dilworth is a beautiful part of the city, but honestly the people living there now, as opposed to the ones that were there 20 years ago are much less to my liking.

[spectacle21]

Marion and Oakey Tyson. I believe they also owned Tyson's Equipment Rental on South Blvd for decades. No doubt you remember Carmen the lesbian door guard. Actually she was a very nice person that had to put up with a bunch of drunk people every night.

It is funny about the 1970s. In the 60s prior to Stonewall, the police would put Gays in jail for simply dancing together. In the 1970s it was much more live and let live in most of the country, including Charlotte, towards Gays than it is even now. Then 1980s came and disco disappeared overnight, and was replaced by Reaganism, conservatism, AIDs, and religious activism. Darker times for sure. The 1970s had its problems but I think in general people of all demographics were still making an attempt to get along. Now everybody is at each other's throats.

wow...the 70s seems like it was a very free-spirited time!

[monsoon]

wow...the 70s seems like it was a very free-spirited time!

It was.

[voyager12]

I suppose I was a little broad in my brushstrokes Metro. I have been told by many area residents that this area was truly diverse years ago with many more gay and artsy establishments before the property values drove most of them out. I am sure there are some conservatives in Dilworth...( Could you tell me the addresses of the Republicans in Dilworth so I can TP their houses? ;-) but at least there is a bit of a bias in bumper stickers towards the liberal side on most streets! More than many neighborhoods. A few of us economy car driving bumper sticker plastered renting freaks are left here in Dilworth although I know we are on borrowed time before the last of us are forced into Belmont or some other neighborhood that is somewhat affordable. Which will be sad for Dilworth because we add alot to the character of the area. I also know many other gay and lesbians that live very happily in other parts of Charlotte. I know I need to remove my "citycentric" blinders especially my pink pair. I am working on it! :-)

[Charlotteman]

When I was young and first coming out (early 1970s) there wasn't really any gay neighborhoods. Gays lived all over the place. I knew gays in Dilworth, North Charlotte, 36th, Wilkinson area, southeast Charlotte etc...all over the whole city.

Rent was dirt cheap back then, and Dilworth was totally affordable for just about anybody.

I rememeber the birth of modern day 4th Ward. At the time I assumed it would logically be "the" gay neighborhood in Charlotte. It is so so beautiful, classy, you would expect it to be full of gays. Is that the case?