Lansing Off Topic

[RustTown]

Yes, you've shared that with us before, Hood.

BTW, everyone should read this great article of my neighborhood:

http://hub.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...210310/1104/HUB

[hood]

Hi guys. I stumbled upon this a while ago and commend your research on the downtown Lansing areas. Although I do believe that you have one area very misconstrued. REO TOWN: In addition of the underused Cadillac Club; currently the old Bozzo building is awaiting city approval to be transferred into the possession of the Dalmations Diner and Grill that is quickly becoming one of Lansings most popular breakfast/lunch spots. There are a few top secret plans for the Old Train Station and the parking lot grounds next to it, that would drastically change the perception of REO TOWN. Also its rumored that the Michigan Electric building has been purchased by the same person owns Pinball Petes in EL. With the lofts being built above the new home of an expanding Architecture firm, Lofts going above the old Danzos hardware, and companies like Van Huettens and Pinball Petes trying to make sure they get into the picture, I think that as long as downtown flourishs, REO TOWN has what it takes to draw a substantial, if somewhat different consumer base. Just thought I could inform you all because you seem to be up on all the other happenings in the city! I think its great!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had initially missed this post so I'll comment on it now.

First lets just make it clear that me and Lmich dont think the same way about REO town, he thinks much more highly of it than I do. What is Dalmations Diner & Grill, I've never heard of this and would like to hear more. When it comes to the train station there have been many plans over the years, including the one involving the failed Station resturaunt. According to the city assessors sight the Michigan Electric Building still belongs to Michigan Electric, but that site does run about 1 or 2 months behind on property transfers. And I have neder heard of anything about Van houtens moving to REO Town, that would probably be a good move, but they may want to secure their outdoor merchandise a little better around there.

Also, who are you, I'm assuming you are a member the REO Town board or whatever it is? If so, keep us filled on with whats going on there, and good luck on proving me wrong.

[InGeniousPoet]

Well, about Dalmations. Right now its next to the Cadillac Club offering great breakfast/lunch with meat supplied by Popoff. It is very busy with police officers and city workers, judges, BWL guys, GM and so on. Problem is that the regular customers had begun by passing it bc of parking and not enough room inside. So the owner is moving across the street to the Old gas station/Bozzos. She'll have a large diner area and a coffe house which my wife will be running. Currently the city has "misplaced" paperwork needed to grant a space behind the building for expansion, so thats all they're waiting on for it to happen. In its wake Evergrill Grill will handle catering options. The Old Train Station is slated to be the new museum district with R.E.O Olds and another larger childrens museum. That other party has hit a snag because they dont want to move there if Southtown club is active (bc of numerous age violations) so we are trying to rectify that. I dont work for the Reo Town association bc currently I work nights, but I am very much committed to helping the area flourish anyway I can. Yeah that Pinball Petes was just a rumor that hopefully comes true. If we can resolve Southtown and attract other businesses, in 5 years this may be a rival of Old Town. Currently they are shooting for a Country Festival for next year, kinda like the Jazz and Blues fests. Hope thats enough info for ya! I'll be looking for more from you guys, on other areas as well.

[RustTown]

Interesting. BTW, the new historic street lights look great! They are starting to pop up all over the city. In fact, the Old Town association has gotten money to put some in their area.

The City Pulse has been an awesome newspaper in terms of getting the lowdown on the small business community in Lansing. I heard about the proposed move of the museums months ago. Impressions 5 is a great childrens museum, and would be even better with more space.

Who was the other party that got snagged?

As for Southtown, I really think that people give them too much credit for how they affect the area. I think it would be a bad move to try and force them out. There has to be some kind of compromise.

[statedude3]

I see a positive future for REOtown, I hope it all pans out. I was disappointed to see Danzo's Hardware store close down, Jim was a good friend of mine, and a truly great person to talk to. His store had the feeling of a true hardware store- not one of those big corporate places. Anyway, was there a restaurant in the ond train station at one time? I swear that one of my oldest memories was eating brunch there after church one day and gawking as a train went rolling by (I know what your thinking, and I'm positive this is not a memory of Clara's).

[RustTown]

Yes, for a short time their was a restaurant in the train station down on South Washington. You're not crazy. Actually, I remember it always being crowded. I guess as our population fell, so did their customer base. I can definitely tell you that it wasn't from a lack of parking. lol

[statedude3]

do any renderings exist from any proposed developments of the site from the past or currently?

[InGeniousPoet]

do any renderings exist from any proposed developments of the site from the past or currently?

Havent seen any renderings. Van Huetens was outbid for the space below the almost finished lofts on S Washington by an Architecture firm, so hopefully they decide that they can use the square footage in Danzos. Heres the thing about Southtown. They bring way too much of a police presence to the area. Last year there was a roit of over 200 people in the street, and they have numerous liquor violations too. Now the city is afraid to close them down because of what happened to them in the LA Globe incident on the southside of Lansing. (They lost and had to pay based on racial profiling.) Now I agree that the city was in the wrong with the LA Globe thing, but Southtown is just as bad-if not worse. Anyways, the old train station used to be a restraunt for many years with live jazz. Then it was rented to a company with a liquor license that for a while only threw frat/sorority parties and made decent money. I worked with an entertainment company that then did regular bar nights on thursdays for college students but alas when the tenants lease was up, the owner of the building decided to sell it to GM to use as a parking lot. The city interjected and said that they couldnt because it was a historical building, so it sits empty now.

[RustTown]

Is Van Huetens really looking hard at moving to REO Town? That would be awesome. They are a great place. I was really sad to hear that their current South Cedar Street store was completely wrecked the other night. I hope they find the perps and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. They do so much for the community by offering fresh foods.

Actually, I think it would be great to see them take up the corner of the giant parking lot near the train station. There they could have a indoor store, and room to display the rest of their produce and such outside.

[InGeniousPoet]

Is Van Huetens really looking hard at moving to REO Town? That would be awesome. They are a great place.

Actually, I think it would be great to see them take up the corner of the giant parking lot near the train station. There they could have a indoor store, and room to display the rest of their produce and such outside.

I dont know how seriously they are looking. I think they that they are serious but I dont know. I hadnt heard about what happened to their store, and sadly I hope it increases their interest in moving into Reo Town. I think being near several different neighborhoods, and by Popoff Meat and a few restraunts could boost their revenue more than that odd spot they are in now.

Anyone know of any plans for the Knapp Building? I was in Louisville, KY and their downtown had a mall called the 'Galleria'. The place was on a corner and was beautiful. All windows. I would love to see something like that to extend the lifeline of downtown past 5pm. Have it open till 9 and then the bars can pick up the traffic after that. Just an idea.

[RustTown]

Unfortunately, a downtown slumlord, the Eyde Company owns the building, and wants to use it as office space, once again. The city doesn't want them to and they aren't in any rush to do anything else with it. In fact, they have a huge parcel of land on the westside of downtown that has been in the planning stages for 7 or more years. The neighbors want a lot of retail, and the Eydes want, guess what? A lot of office space. And a short 3 story building at that with limited retail and housing space.

If they could turn all of downtown into an office park, they would

[hood]

About the Southtown debate, it does not diminish the area very much at all, the neighborhoods have plenty going on without the help of Southtown, I've even heard cops refer to the Speedwagon liquor store as "The drug hut." In fact, there were no police calls to Southtown in the 30 days before 9/18, there wer ~34 on or within one block of Washington between Main and Mt. Hope in the same period, 9 of which were drug related, and that was a slow month, the preceding 30 days had 47 crimes with none at Southtown and those in general were more serious (i.e. robbery, felonious assaults, car theft.) I'm sick of people using Southtown as a scapegoat for the areas problems, even Vick Izzo's has been host to more crimes than Southtown, and leading the pack is the Deluxe Inn, which very often has over 10 crimes in one month, many felonious assaults, prostitution, drug selling type calls. Also much of Washington between Main and Mt. Hope is designated a "Prostitution area" and nearly as much is designated a "Drug Area."

Oh, and screw Eyde, he will eventually be dealt with, hopefully before he causes any more serious problems downtown.

[InGeniousPoet]

About the Southtown debate, it does not diminish the area very much at all, the neighborhoods have plenty going on without the help of Southtown, I've even heard cops refer to the Speedwagon liquor store as "The drug hut." .....and leading the pack is the Deluxe Inn, which very often has over 10 crimes in one month, many felonious assaults, prostitution, drug selling type calls. Also much of Washington between Main and Mt. Hope is designated a "Prostitution area" and nearly as much is designated a "Drug Area."

Oh, and screw Eyde, he will eventually be dealt with, hopefully before he causes any more serious problems downtown.

I agree with Speedwagon being a terrible place and Lord knows I rue the day they shut down the Delux Inn. Just wish I could get my hands on something incriminating like IRS no-no's! Hey this place has a ways to go, much like dowtown Lansing did there were nothing but hobos and porn shops where Oldsmobile Park now sits. Its a fact. Almost every part of town that has potential to grow has to oust drugs crime and poverty to get there. And with Southtown, lets face it , perception is reality. I really miss Ramons being there. Heck if any specialty dining moved there it would help. Right now Southtown doesnt produce anything the area really needs... much like Speedwagon and Delux Inn but on a lesser scale

[RustTown]

It gives REO Town nightlife. Maybe not the night life many of the majority in this town would frequent, but that's not really the point. It pulls in a diverse crowd, too, with its different themed nights.

The thing is, Lansing, like every other declined city (which is just about every urban area in this country after the 50's), needs urban pioneers. You know, those willing to get their feet wet so that other's can follow. People can't keep waiting for something to happen, or nothing ever will. That's why I champion small businesses taking chances. You win some and you lose some. That's just the fact of life in a declined city.

[statedude3]

While we're discussing plans for nothing in the Southtown/REOtown area, I might as well add one to the list: Quality Dairy at the corner of Washington and Mt. Hope. I love the fact that they got rid of that horrible auto body place that was there before.

However, I was in 8th grade when that place was torn down, and a "QD coming soon" sign put up. I'm graduating from Michigan State (the university of the state of michigan) next spring. That is just rediculous. First, there is a QD just down the street at Mt. Hope/Pattengill; second, the last thing that area needs is another liquor store. Speedwagon and Mario's II (though better than SW in my mind) already have the booze market covered for the area.

Now I've got myself upset. I'm gonna go to Mario's II and buy something to drown my sorrows.

[hood]

I've laughed at that sign for the QD for a long time now, they really need to take it down.

And Lansing isn't really much of a declined city. Lansing is no where near hitting bottom, Lansing made it through the 60's and 70's improved. In the 80's Lansing topped out, which carried throught to the mid nineties. Then Lansing as a whole began to decline again, thats when all the revitalization efforts really kicked into full gear, which haven't done much for the neighborhoods, except the Genesee Neighborhood.

About REO Town, you can't just move into an area and attempt to get rid of all the business' and people that you don't like. I don't like it when people try to do that, if you want to fix things up that's fine, but when you want to screw the people in the neighborhoods over that's not.

[RustTown]

LOL! Quality Dairy has really become a bad neighbor over the past few decades. I've slowly watched the one on the corner near me slowly deteriorate before my eyes. It used to house a bakery, but that shut down when they moved the main bakery to the REO Town industrial park. The parking lot is in literal shambles, and there is no land/street scapping of the property and it's on one of the most prominent corner of the cities. I can't for the life of me how they've let a few other their properties go to hell. They used to be such a great neighbor.

Anyway, does anyone remember when they had a store in REO Town on the corner of Washington and Woodlawn near Baker? They still use the facility but as something else. I really hope they build on the corner of Mount Hope and Washington. It bothers me to see that sign and to see nothing happening on that prime corner.

As for Lansing being a declined city, regardless of population growth, the central city died within that population growth. It is definitely nowhere along the lines of a Flint, Detroit, or Saginaw, but it is still a prime rustbelt city.

[hood]

QD now uses the old store on washington for bottling, I think it's mostly or all milk getting bottled down there. They also make bottles for themselves and others at part of the old factory at Washington & Mt. Hope.

That QD up at Saginaw & Cedar really is in bad shape, it's worse than some of the regular liqour stores. The ones on Willow, at Saginaw & Pine and Kalamazoo & Pennsylvania are in pretty rough shape to.

[RustTown]

BTW, I have been told that the Printer's Row Condominiums at Grand and St. Joseph in the southeast corner of downtown will officially break ground September 29th!

[InGeniousPoet]

BTW, I have been told that the Printer's Row Condominiums at Grand and St. Joseph in the southeast corner of downtown will officially break ground September 29th!

Yeah I just noticed that they have Grand Ave scheduled to be closed all next week to coincide with the development efforts. Good to see things are headed in the right direction over there. One more thing about the REO TOWN stuff, you gotta understand that I own a home here and I'm not passive in thinking that I should just enjoy Southtown because its diverse. They play the music I listen to(hip hop), their patrons are in my own image(black). But they do cause problems just like SW and Deluxe Inn, and if there is an establishment that is better suited to raise my property value I could care less who it is. I'm all for getting rid of bad apples if it makes me double my estate value (which already has gone up 20grand in 3 years) call it what you like but my home and neighborhood are investments that I want to protect. Its different than what happens in East Village bc that doesnt effect my investment. I see your points, it just doesnt really matter when it comes to my estate value. Also talked to the people at Impression5 and they are really set in trying to stay downtown, could that mean they are going to move over by Printers Row and Boarshead?

[hood]

Thats great to hear Printers Row is getting under way, they should probably go up pretty quick.

I'm also glad to hear Impression 5 wants to stay downtown, but they should not move until they have funding for a nice project, if Lansing was in line to get a $40 million dollar performing arts center that only a handful of people would use, we should be able to get AT LEAST that much to build a state-of-the-art science museum. And when the RE Olds museum rebuilds they will need to be huge, I was talking to one of the people who runs it yet and they said that there are many more people who would be willing to put their cars in the museum. I was thinking it should be at least 250,000 sq. ft and should be built to look like an old multi-story factory.

InGeniousPoet, I now understand why you want so bad for REO Town to improve, owning property in an area always has a way of making you care a lot about it. But most in the area don't care, a majority of the people there are either seniors or the people who support establishments like Southtown, the Deluxe Inn or the Speedwagon. Who knows, maybe the area will improve, and if it does thats fine, but I just doubt it will.

[RustTown]

Actually, REO Town would be a rather small museum even if they get more exhibits. From what I remember, they said only needed another floor of space, and even if they needed two or three more floors equivalent of space it wouldn't be anywhere near 250,000. 250,000 square feet is larger than the Michigan National Tower, Ottawa Street Station, heck, nearly bigger than any buildings downtown outside of the 500,000 square foot Constitution Hall.

Now, if all of the museums currently downtown combined they might need that much space, but no one museum would justify buildings a structure that large.

[hood]

What you are forgetting about the RE Olds museum is that they only own a few cars, almost all their cars are loaned to them, because the building is free storage for the cars. Do you have any idea how many classic car owners would love to have free storage for their cars? I was talking to some guy who said that they could fill a much larger space, they don't even know how muck more space they could fill with just adding cars, let alone if they actually come up with some new exibits. And if they were willing to take nameplates other than GM's they could probably fill almost any amount of space they build, but realistically I would say 100,000 sq ft would be sufficient as long as they allow for expansion.

[RustTown]

BTW, I went by the Printer's Row site today, and couldn't believe how different it looks without the trees. The difference is night and day. The site has been completely leveled.

Also, within the past few days, the entire back of the Arbaugh is painted in the same red the bricks are in. It's strange how little things like this are so noticeable. Because of it's place on a small hill, it sticks out really well, especially if you are way up on East Kalamazoo.

It would be cool to see a large, historic-type neon sign on it's roof that read "The Arbaugh." I shared that with the developer via email, but he says he barely has the money to renovate the thing.

[hood]

No photo updates this week? I don't get a chance to get dowtown too often now, but hopefully you can keep us all updated as the Printers Row moves along