fisher191

Has everyone seen the new bridge in Old Town? It's beautiful, the district is starting to have that Grand Haven/ Saugatuck/ downtown Howell feel. Personally I think streetscapes are one of the most important things that a city can do to remake its image, and the developers will do the rest.

Vanity killed them. Councilmembers have been quietly floating the idea of curtailing the regulars for a while now. I think they all want to make sure that there will not be a backlash. I'm almost certain that Dunbar, Bauer and Jeffries will vote to curtail them. From the City Pulse article, apparently Allen will to. Simply moving the public comment to, after the council business, won't fully do the trick, but will take some of the wind out of their sails. I would find it quite funny if they do that, and if the regulars start showing up later to get their 3 minutes of fame, if the council finished their business, then just left. Then being council president would be a position that no one would want, as I believe that person would have to stay.

Besides, want to solve the city's budget problems, fill space, create jobs........it would accomplish all of those.

I say, ' go for it', anything worth having is work and time. The amount of momentum that would pump into Lansing. Problem is finding an elected official brave enough to stick their neck out there. Personallly I think Virg is strong enough to do it. Besides, there are enough casinos out there, that most voters will back them. I'm from Mt. Pleasant, and yes they do bring some unsavory elements, but the good more than outweighs the bad.

Don't forget a HUGE one, cost of land. Undeveloped land is almost always cheaper than buying an older building and starting over. Undeveloped land is less likely to have environmental concerns (but not always). I would love to see more urban revitalization, but the economics and zoning ordinances are heavily slanted towards sprawl.

IMO, I think the urban revitilization is just getting off the ground. To take back/prevent people fleeing the cities we need the new and cool properties. There are definetly pockets of success, but the whole movement is just getting going. Even locally, how many units, both rental and sale, have come online. Arbaugh--48, Prudden Place-- ~50/60, East Village, Condos on the Grand. If someone decides they want a new property, there still is not that many options....yet. Whereas there are tons of choices of subdivisions in the satellite cities. Motor Wheel is not online yet, Printers Row is not fully up yet. Stadium District has not broke ground. Abrams Landing has not broke ground, 21 units at the Hollister building is coming. I am opptimistic on the resurgence of the cities. Many baby boomers still like the suburbs, some are starting to move back, but not quite the numbers necessary to turn the tide. The suburbs are getting so expensive that it is also going to help keep younger families in the city. To keep them though, there needs to be more renovated/constructed city units.

high gloss cobalt tiles.

That's pretty cool. side by side. I'm not that computer savy to have connected them like that. There was another sketch that used similiar colors as the SD, that was presented, but I really liked the bolder colors.

those are ice breakers, I am pretty sure that they are being replaced. I looked at the schematics for the bridge about a month ago, so I'm about 90% positive on that. I think the new ones will be a little cleaner. They were necessary to protect the bridge, until the dam was put it, now they are a little redundant, but if they ever remove that dam, they may serve a purpose again.

I totally agree, I think Michigan avenue is kind of a disgrace. A couple of blocks are fine, but there are so many sections that are pretty bad. Unfortunately the owners are asking way to much for their crappy houses. That would be a great area for some incentive monies. The city put in the lighting along the way, no if they could just press the envelope and maybe tie the money to some design standards. That section with the City Pulse, the Green Door, and Emil's makes for a natural starting point. I have a lot of houses over there, I would really welcome the facelift, it would push values up a little more.

To further illustrate the Old Town example... Richard Karp did the first gut job renovation on the 'Lumbertown Lofts' on Turner street (where the Banyan gallery is right now), the district was desolate when the project was started. The building was almost given to him, and there were TONS of incentives. This was back when you could spend 500k to renovate a building that might be worth 300k when completed. Today, you can buy a property for 125-150k, throw 200k into it, and it will probably be worth 350-425k. With the values increased, more people undertake projects. The incentives 'primed the pump', and now they can step back and watch the tax base grow.

Every city is different... The faster development takes hold, the quicker the grants dry up. You could make an example of downtown Detroit. Several rounds of grants and abatements have been tried, and failed to turn the area around. The Super Bowl however, has seemed to really make it start to turn the corner, the area still needs incentives, but there is definetly a buzz down there, that was not there before. That buzz is here in Lansing too. Economics plays pretty heavy in there too. If the economy is booming, then it happens faster. For a residential example, look to the Westside neighborhood. 15 years ago, it was not very desirable. Some restoration minded folks moved in, and started the facelifts, then helped by booming real estate values and low interest rates, a great many more people jumped in. Now it is one of the top three areas of Lansing, as far as desirability goes. The property values have gotten high enough, that bargain hunters and renovators are looking to other areas, like the Moores Park Subdivision. People are still looking to the Westside neighborhood, but it is leveling out, as it has been transformed into an affluent neighborhood. Old town is another example, up until last year, an owner could apply for 50k through LISC and Michigan Interfaith for gut job renovations. That money has dried up now, but John Sears used it to renovate a couple of places, my office building being one, and another REO town. The values of Old Town properties have come up enough, that the grants aren't completely necessary for the smaller properties. Preuss is moving into the old Jack's automotive, which is a large enough project, the incentives were needed.

To further illustrate the 'waves' of development. Commercial rates in Lansing have been quite stagnant for a good many years. 70-125.00 per square foot, for various projects, thats for the end value. Construction costs run equal to that, therefore the need for abatements and incentives to overcome the low rates. In areas like Royal Oak, some projects go for as high as 350.00 a square foot. The construction costs are much lower than that, therefore municipalities can ask developers to do more, and they can put in awesome premium features, unique architecture, and taller buildings. Here in Lansing, you have to watch every penny, because the deals are so tight. Its changing though......thankfully.

I think the biggest benefit comes through expansion on the Southside, there are more residents and the city and its residents get the most bang for their buck. On the previous stream.... The first wave of development has not completed, when the second wave hits, which is when the grants and incentives will dry up, because they won't be needed, rents and property values will have gone up enough to warrant some really cool stuff. Then the city can get a little more gutsy in asking for things from developers.

Well I feel it necessary to weigh in on this one. Everyone, including the city regulars need to face the facts, that these abatements and incentive programs are what is spurring this development wave, and until this first full wave passes of projects that receive the abatements and tax credits (of which are limited in their scope and duration). Rents and property values will be pushed up by this first wave, and when the tax credits and abatements are used up, then we all have to hope that enough progress has been made to continue the development and advancement. The reality of our area is that the current rents and property values, are not high enough to spur the kind of development that we would all like to see, without these programs. The Arbaugh is a HUGE example of this. That project used every tax abatement and program available, but that is what they are there for, without these programs the project never would have been done. I don't know if anyone remembers but Mr. Karp was one of the original developers of Old Town, with the Lumbertown loft project (turner street), which spurred so much other development. Not to be overly crass, but, if it wasn't for the current development evironment, many developers I have talked to, including myself, would be parking our money elsewhere. These large projects, are large enough that located here, or some other market like, Jacksonville, Florida. Without these programs, the return on investment for a city and state that is operating with a deficit, has some of the lowest property values in the country, where the population's median income is lower than the national, and one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. Developers are taking huge risks right now, that maybe in the press and public they don't want to rain on a parade, but that's the way it is. So with sunny pastures elsewhere, why stay, belief that you can have a hand in making Lansing better. Belief that things can be better. Tax and incentives that give a good return. The council regulars love to ask for more from developers, and its so easy to just think that every project can come together and maybe they could have asked for a little more. Remember these people don't risk money, AND these tax abatements do run out and go to their full rates. These regulars are NEVER happy with anything.