Garris

Oh, not by any means. There's a lot of people here who love the ongoing evolution and development of Providence, but they're not the ones running the neighborhood associations and not the ones being quoted by the Providence Journal... The CHNA and Fox Point groups in particular are fairly reactionary. Given the opportunity, the CHNA would love to scale back the current incarnation of Thayer St, and there are one or two people heavily involved in the Wayland Sq group who feel the same about their neighborhood... - Garris

Actually, the original (one post) thread on UP about this is here. I also noted this quote from myself on a previous forum after I met Ed Bishop at one of the Providence 2020 meetings: - Garris

Three (kinda shabby) old homes that currently house apartments would be demolished for the new building. Also, one of the CHNA's reasons for being is to prevent encroachment of anything (educational, retail, commercial, etc) into the otherwise perfect residential sanctum (heavy sarcasm here, obviously). I'm sure Brown wouldn't mind it all all. But Brown has bigger fights they'll want to wage then this one and they'll need all the political equity they can get. - Garris

I hope so. It could also be Ed Bishop's dream of an Inn off of Thayer near Brown which the enlightened College Hill Neighborhood Association has vowed to fight to the death over... - Garris

I may not make it quite at 5 either... But I'll definitely be there before the meeting kicks off... - Garris

Cotuit, Quick question... I was jogging by the Memorial Hall at RISD the other day and noticed it's all fenced off. What's going on? Are they renovating it? - Garris PS: For anyone caring besides me, the 111 Plain St. medical building addition near RIH is moving along nicely, and the added length has been done in the same brick and stone style as the old building rather than just slapping on a cheapo updated section. Nice...

NO! Haven't you heard?? Providence is becoming a wealthy enclave... There's nothing to find except million dollars condos and sprawling mansions. The lower and middle classes are being thrown out onto the street, often by Struever representatives themselves sneaking into houses in the middle of the night and thowing people into the trunks of their Lexus SUV's... [sarcasm mode off] Seriously, this is what I've been saying for months. All anyone needs to do is go to RILiving.com and browse, and it's obvious there's quite a bit that's quite affordable to be found. Just 2 blocks away from me they're renovating a building in the heart of Wayland Square off Angell with condos ranging from 160,000 to about 220,000. Thanks for the further injection of sanity, Recchia. - Garris

Yes, it was a great meeting on Friday. Sorry for my delay in posting meeting notes. It was a brutal weekend of work... I'll post the meeting notes (and the embryologic plans to start the urban advocacy group) later. Regarding the Providence Tomorrow meeting coming up on Wednesday, two members of the planning department were there to explain the process to the Wayland Square meeting last week. Wednesday's gathering will be mostly educational to explain how this process works, what charettes are (they are desperately trying to come up with a more digestable name for the sessions), and when the charettes will be. While there will be some breakdown groups at the end and some questionaires to fill out (for example, "What do you like most about Providence?" type of questionaires), it very much sounds like the Wednesday meeting will not be a big feedback forum. In fact, the location of the event in RW Park, the ice cream, etc are all attempts by the planning department to engage the type of Providence citizen who usually wouldn't come to such planning events (not people like wacko Fox Point tree ladies, government wonks, and, well... us). As Cotuit mentioned, this will be a nice opportunity to get a primer on how the planning process will work and perhaps even have an impromptu UP meeting, but this doesn't appear to be the forum to get all hot and fired up about bringing specific issues to public attention. - Garris

Ooops, never mind then... - Garris

I don't think so. If you believe the map, that location is the parking garage at the intersection of Richmond and Weybosset. Interesting... - Garris

Good luck. I've tried using that argument here on the East Side and just get this back at me . People don't see the environment beyond the green they can see from their living room windows and feel more density equals more people and more parking... If you've got another way to spin the argument, please let me know, because the blunt approach doesn't seem to work... - Garris

That really, warm, fuzzy feeling inside... On a different topic, I was recently in Wickford Village for the first time (cute little Benefit Street-on-the-bay feel) and noticed that the Brooks pharmacy in the downtown there even had its beautiful old windows there covered over by boards on the bottom 3/4 of the window. Does anyone know why pharmacies of every stripe everywhere do this? It just kills the streetscape and I don't see any obvious reasons. It can't be for privacy, since the pharmacies are in the back of the store. Just cashiers are in the front. Supermarkets don't do that... I believe there are some people here that have worked for/with pharmacies here on the boards. Any insight? - Garris

I can probably make that... That pdf actually has a nice framework for ways to organize thinking about certain issues and questions. It's nice to know what the city is thinking (that document is reassuringly urban in its tone) and it'll be helpful to frame our desires and ideas using the broad conceptual outline they have there. - Garris

I can make the 22nd. I think having the guidance of someone who has organized such efforts is critical to prevent us from wasting time and spinning our wheels. - Garris

Now, if there were ever something for a community organization to oppose, this is it. Is there a Federal Hill group to go argue this? Goodness, I'd go argue this at a zoning meeting! - Garris Addendum: While I believe Federal Hill needs a large, Portsmouth, NH/Empire on Broadway style municipal parking garage, this isn't the place for it, and isn't the neighborhood for it, and it isn't part of a comprehensive solution. Surface parking is the last thing that should be used to solve Federal Hill's parking problems...

Glad you enjoyed Sun and Moon. It's certainly one of my favorites. If you want really spicy, though, try the nearly invisible Korean restaurant on Benefit St, of all places. It's in the former Solomon's market, and they've kept the Solomon's name (thus even making them yet more stealth than they already were). Outstanding Korean food as well, and some of the spiciest I've had anywhere. I usually need to convince Asian restaurants to pour on the spice as well, but Solomon's dish was pushing my limits of tolerance. If you like spicy, Iron Wok in Seekonk will pour on as much heat as you can stand in your Chinese dishes as well. - Garris

That's what I mean, actually. I know the residential neighborhoods there are pristine. EP is a shining example of how a "working class" area can exude pride and class in a fashion that seems completely absent in Smith Hill, Federal Hill, and areas of Pawtucket. I was more referring to the fact that some of the businesses on Warren and Taunton could use some updating. - Garris

East Prov has some of my favorite restaurants: Sun and Moon Korean, Sax's, Cafe Brazil, several good Portugese restaurants, and soon Spain. There's a couple of New York Systems around there too... The urban Warren and Tauton Ave areas feel somewhat worn down, but have tons of potential. Co-workers who live in Riverside and Fumford love it. - Garris

East Providence is a nice move. It's close to the city, has its own great restaurants and urban areas above (as Recchia points out), and unlike, oh, say, Smith Hill and Federal Hill, the neighborhoods are safe, clean, and well kept. I think East Providence will boom long before Smith Hill! - Garris

[Warning, typically long Garris explosion of ideas post] Ok, finally grabbed some time to post here on some of the (excellent) ongoing topics... Regarding: Jerry's issues regarding frustrations of living in Providence... Well, granted, I'm chiming in from the, how did you phrase ?, "Esoteric bubble" of Wayland Sq here , but trust me, I feel your frustration. I've been considering the issues of living in Providence a lot lately as I've been on the job hunt and, with rare exceptions, where a physician chooses to put down roots and build a patient panel is where they stay for most of their career. So, I've been thinking a lot about many of the things you bring up. First, Brick is absolutely correct that there's nothing going on in Providence that isn't happening in almost every other city (and many major metro area suburbs as well): - Middle class getting squeezed out by rising housing prices: check - School systems underperforming public expectations: check - Downtowns becoming the province of the younger single or older professional affluent classes or students: check - Immigrants driving urban population growth:check (BTW: you stated Providence's population is dropping, which isn't true...) - The affluent and the "lower classes" not "mixing" well together: check - Universities, healthcare, social services, and small businesses increasingly being the economic engine or urban areas: check Many of these trends go way beyond policy of what's happening locally. I've considered many of the above issues, and many of the other more specific concerns you bring up, and after all of it, I'm still going to try to stay right here. Why? Here are my thoughts about some of the concerns you bring up. - Concern: Very close proximity between "good" and "bad" neighborhoods... Absolutely true, and while arguably a weakness here, it's also a strength. For example, I can drive from Wayland Square to the Valley area/West End/Federal Hill and in 10 minutes or less pass through Thayer St, Fox Point, Wickenden, Jewelry District, Downcity, and even upper South Providence if I want. That's about 7-8 completely distinct neighborhoods, all with their own unique flavor, architecture, character, demographics, strengths and weaknesses, in 10 minutes or less. That's pretty darn remarkable! How many cities can you do that in? Would I want to live in all of those neighborhoods? No, definitely not, but I'm glad they're there and glad other people want to live in them. In the NY suburb where I grew up, where I lived in Minnesota, and where I lived in Scottsdale, for example, if I went 10 minutes in any direction (even 30 minutes or 60 minutes in any direction) I passed... A lot of the same cookie cutter, anywhere in America houses, retail, and commercial development. And many of the same white, middle class demographic. I'll take our situation, thank you... I think the city can help better "demarcate" areas by bolstering the retail cores of neighborhoods (more on this in a different post later perhaps)... - Concern: Pockets of gentrification (including a more exclusive downtown) in a city of poverty... True to an extent, yes. One person I know calls the East Side an "affluent ghetto." But this is not unusual, or undesirable. Absolutely every thriving city in America I've visited usually has its most expensive and desirable real estate downtown, and all of those cities have affluent neighborhoods where most people can't afford to live. I'm continually baffled on how some people think this is a bad thing for Providence. It's absolutely a healthy sign that people who can afford to live everywhere in the region or even nation are staking nearly their entire net wealth on buying a condo/home/loft/apartment here in Providence, especially downtown. We're that desirable in people's eyes. Similarly, I still count Providence (looking at the entire area of the city within its boundries, and not just Downcity or College Hill as some will do) as a pretty affordable place. How many people in Providence, who live here easily and successfully, could afford to live similarly in Manhattan, Boston, Seattle, or Portland OR? Or in some smaller cities like White Plains or Stamford? No many, I would bet. At least we can have this discussion here, while in other cities like Boston or Seattle that are so expensive that even the middle-class is priced out, that discussion is already over. What about our Poverty? Bad to be sure, but our areas of poverty, in my own personal opinion, are not a fraction as bad or hopeless as similar areas in New Haven (which as some of the scariest neighborhoods I've ever seen), Hartford (please, no flame war Hartford folks, it's just my personal opinion), Philly (whose areas of scary poverty are the size of like 20 Providences), or Chicago. I feel safe almost everywhere in Providence and, as others have pointed out, some of our more "disadvantaged" areas are actually, by other measures, quite vibrant and thriving communities. In my opinion, if any city has the opportunity to make headway on such issues and improve its citizen's quality of life, it's Providence. - Concern: The school system sucks... Absolutely. If I have children some day (I'm still working on the marriage thing!) I wouldn't want them in the Providence public schools either. But guess what? Most of the people I know who are that school focused aren't flocking to move to Worchester, Boston, Hartford, or NYC for their public schools either. Providence has excellent parochial schools (Christian and Jewish) and private school options, and it has very good nearby suburban options in the metro as well. This is no different from any other metro I've seen. I personally think Providence's public school system probably needs to be blown up and rebuilt from the ground up. But as Urbie started saying above, even the best school systems can't overcome what happens in kids homes and what's going on in kids heads, and that's not going to change quickly in Providence (or anywhere else) anytime soon... - Concern: My neighbors suck, there's petty crime everywhere... ... and not just in cities. There's less of a chance of it in the suburbs, but all of the above can happen everywhere. In the guilded NY suburbs, my mother's car got keyed in her workplace parking lot and one of her former students just killed his girlfriend in a drug induced range. In a guilded South Jersey shore community, a family I know is "at war" with a nasty neighbor in their respective million dollar homes. It culminated recently with one neighbor situating their sprinklers in such a location that "happened" to be within range of multiple open windows in the home of the family I know while they were out of town for a week. It can happen anywhere... - Concern: Providence isn't yet an urban jem... I actually agree with this to a degree. We're not there yet. Many of the city's neighborhoods' retail cores are too small and underdeveloped, RIPTA is a work that isn't as in-progress as it should be, and downtown is still in evolution. I still believe that with everything going on in the city, that's we're at 2009 at earliest and more likely 2012-ish to 2015ish, if not longer, until the city starts to hit its stride. The Upside... But, that's why I think Providence is worth it is because of its potential. We already have things that other urban areas dream of: - Amazing neighborhoods and unique character... - Incredible architecture... - Dramatic geography (hills, valleys, rivers, etc right in the center of town)... - Successful and rapidly growing world class institutions of higher learning... - Waterfront access... - An amazingly walkable, charming downtown... - Successful and stable local sports teams (PC basketball, the Paw Socks, the P Bruins)... - A vibrant arts scene... - Beaches, Boston, mountains in under an hours from the city center... - One of the nation's easiest to use airports in 10-15 minutes from city center... - Right on the Amtrak line... - A successful downtown mall... - Great healthcare options (like 8 hospitals in the metro!!)... etc, etc... And look at the likely certainties in the next 5-10 years... - More hotels for conventions being built and coming online - 4-6 condo/apartment towers downtown - 195 gets moved and opens up 22 or so acres of land connecting the JD and downtown and we get a major new urban park - Powerlines across the bay get buried - Hospitals continue to expand (W&I building a huge new building, for ex, and Miriam continues to build) - Dunk gets redone and the VMA renovations get completed - Airport gets connected to the rail system - Some type of commuter rail gets established - Surrounding communities like Pawtucket and East Providence continue to gain traction What other similar sized, similarly affordable city anywhere in the Northeast offers even a fraction of such things at this level? What are the potential pitfalls down the road? My biggest concern is that people don't realize these things, and that we are dramatically underexploiting our potentially, actually. Clouds on the horizon that worry me and should worry everyone are: - Leadership, leadership, leadership: A bad mayor here or an ineffective state administration there could really undermine and derail things... - Neighborhood groups: The nearly fanatical, reactionary forces in the neighborhood associations are plowing all of their capital into the master neighborhood planning process, and I fear paralysis could result. Folks, I don't think we have years and years to sort these things out. The city and the neighborhoods need to rapidly plan and rapidly execute. We have a good development window here, and I fear things are moving too slowly and it'll pass us right on by... - Boston: I personally think Boston has bigger problems than we do. They have all the usual NE regional issues as we do, but in more extreme fashion and at double the cost. If they start to falter (which some are arguing is already happening), then we could catch cold too. When I start hearing people I know in Boston answering such concerns with lines like, "Things can't get that bad. You, know, we're Boston!!" I start to really worry. We could actually exploit this sitution to Providence's benefit, but that would be politically catty and undermine the whole regional cooperation that needs to take place... - Business Climate: This city really, really needs to create a better retail/business climate. When I talk to business owners who are doing really well in their locations in the best areas of the city but say that they're still on the bubble because of taxes or high rents (which themselves are often driven by property taxes), I get really concerned. Retail environments in places like Federal Hill and the East Side need better chances for stability and places like downtown and the West End need to be kickstarted, and I don't know of formal policy in place to do this. If it's there, someone tell me... This should be #2 priority after schools... - Lack of Pride: Why does Providence (like Philly) always look so shabby, even in its best, most visible areas? Why does it tolerate graffiti everywhere? Why do homeowners of million dollar homes on the East Side not mow their sidewalk grass (or weed) patches and renters in Smith Hill not pick up garbage? Why have some high profile buildings on Washington St not received a coat of paint since WWI? Why do our retail establishments seem to have zero imagination when it comes to facades or marketing? Why doesn't Brown care about Thayer St? Why don't the very profitable businesses and practices around the RI Hospital medical area have a shred of landscaping, trees, or grass to break up their acres of surface parking? For our "Renaissance" to be complete, such things need to change... Whew! So there you go. In the aggregate, I still think this is a unique, affordable, exciting city of enormous potential that's rare to find anywhere. It's a great joy living here already and the future (if we manage it correctly and take advantage of our strengths) is only brighter. Hopefully, I'll be here for the long run... - Garris

What is the city in the second half of those photos? Obviously not Providence... - Garris

I'm interpreting this to mean, "what are the things that give you pause about living there" or "what isn't up to other metro area standards..." Here's my list: - Graffiti is worse than average here... - Tax burden in Providence is pretty darn high... - Parks, despite some improvement, are generally undermaintained... - In general upkeep overall, few areas, even the most gilded areas of the city, often feel far from pristine... - Neighborhood centers are oddly under-retailed... - Waterfront is (currently) dramatically underutilized as a resource... That's off the top of my head. Providence, like anywhere, isn't perfect and, like almost anywhere, how happy you are often depends upon how much you like your neighborhood. I've been thrilled here overall. I can only think of 3 cities off the top of my head I'd rather live in (Portland, OR; Minneapolis, MN; and Vancouver, BC). Why? - Garris

Very cool! I've never seen the skyline from within J&W. 110 Westminster will be absolutely dominant from this perspective! This photo also reinforces my affection for the Bank of America ("Superman") building. There's just something so triumphant and defiant in that building! - Garris

I had an idea for a "UP moving to Providence guide" so the same questions don't keep getting asked over and over (and thus we don't have to give the same answers over and over, 30 pages of posts is a lot for someone to go through!). We could each do certain neighborhoods and keep it to a certain format. I suggest the following: - Neighborhood Name Summary: 6 sentence paragraph at most describing the overall flavor of the neighborhood. Pros: One-two sentences at most at the biggest upside of the area... Cons: One-two sentences at most at the biggest downsides to an area... Future Issues: Biggest issues ahead for the neighborhood, 1-2 sentences at most... Walking Distance to Downtown: Amount of time... Driving Distance to Downtown: Amount of time... Mass Transit Connections/Time Connects, time to get downtown Housing Stock/Prices: Prices in low/medium/high Safety Issues: Links: This would be my sample Wayland Square entry: - Wayland Square Summary: One of Providence's original "Streetcar Suburbs," Wayland Square today is a pretty, leafy residential area surrounding a denser retail and residential core. The "Square" itself is centered around the intersection of Angell St and Wayland Ave and is one of Providence's few completely walkable neighborhoods for its residents without the need for a car. 2 food markets (including a Whole Foods), a CVS pharmacy, 2 bookstores, 4 upscale restaurants, 2 coffee houses, multiple boutiques, and doctor/dental/vet offices are among the many offerings within a compact 8 square blocks. While made up predominently of large, expensive (and many historic) single family homes and condos, there are many starter condos and medium priced apartments that are home to many young professionals and graduate students, making for a more economically diverse neighborhood than many would expect at first glance. The Seekonk River and its many parks and the Blackstone walking path (see "Blackstone Neighborhood entry") are blocks away. Pros: Beautiful, safe, and containing all the amenities of a completely walkable neighborhood. Cons: Too sleepy and suburban for some. It's generally expensive, with some of the region's priciest housing stock. Future Issues: Several expensive condos are about to come online, the future of the large United Way offices are uncertain... Walking Distance to Downtown: 25 minutes, but note that much of the walk back is uphill at first. The Thayer Street retail area at Brown University is a 10-15 minute walk away on the way to downtown. Driving Distance to Downtown: 5 minutes or less along Angell St. Highway 195 entrance is 5 minutes down Gano St. Mass Transit Connections/Time The 35, 40, and 78 RIPTA lines go through the square are take about 7-10 minutes to reach downtown. Housing Stock/Prices: Single family homes tend to be large and very expensive. Condos tend to be converted homes and range from medium to very expensive. Apartments range from large apartment buildings to converted SFH's, and range from medium priced to expensive. Safety Issues: One of the (if not the) safest neighborhoods in the city, and residents feel safe walking or jogging at all hours of the day and night. The wealth does attract burglary and petty crime. Graffiti has been a problem for retailers and some condos. Links: The key is to be as honest as possible, and we could put our posts up here for others to critique. I could do the East Side Neighborhoods of College Hill, Fox Point, Blackstone, and Oak Hill. How about others volunteer for the following? - Mount Hope - Summit - Downtown - Jewelry District - South Providence - Armory - Broadway/West End (I get a bit fuzzy on the neighborhoods here) - Federal Hill - Valley - Olneyville - Smith Hill And maybe someone could do North Providence and East Providence as separate entries. Preferably, the people doing the entries should live in or very near to the neighborhoods in question. Maybe Cotuit or I could then format entries along with a photo of the neighborhood and a map with location in only the way Cotuit can (nice of me to volunteer him ). That way, people would have a resource we can update without having to go back through like 300 posts... Any takers for neighborhoods? - Garris

I went up to Vermont this past (rainy) weekend to run in a team relay race (200 total miles split up among 9 team members, so about 22 or so miles for each of us in 4 runs over 30 hours) and managed to snap a few photos of rural Vermont as we made our way through the state. Here are some shots. Enjoy! One of 6 covered bridges we ran through: Black and white detail of the stone (barely) holding up the bridge: While it often felt like the entire run was uphill, here was one of the (very pretty) downhill stretches: We stayed at the Stowe Inn the night before the relay, which was quite nice. Thus, scenes from the Inn: As in much of New England this Spring, it rained heavily during our time in Vermont (3 of my 4 runs were in torrential downpours) but the clouds started to lift late Sunday morning: I left Vermont impressed as usual at the beauty of its rural small towns and communities. And to think all of that is but a few hours drive from Providence! - Garris