blt23
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Posts posted by blt23
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I'll be surprised if much happens with the Sentinel site before creative village and other obvious vacant lots are more built out.
I imagine the size and somewhat unwelcoming borders are going to make urban/pedestrian friendly development a challenge.
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Orange County recently posted a 1000+ page report on their transportation initiative webpage (http://www.ocfl.net/TrafficTransportation/TransportationInitiative.aspx) describing the unfunded transportation "needs" that could be covered by the proposed sales tax.
Based on a quick look I'm not particularly impressed because it feels incredibly car-centric, is very noncommittal about what any given project includes, and has approximately nothing dedicated to protected cycling infrastructure.
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I hope they publish the full plan documents soon, but my initial interpretation is that the existing Sunrail service will stay the same with frequencies of 30 min peak, 60 min midday, and nothing on evening or weekends. Orange County would then add a second service pattern that runs from the airport to the existing Sunrail tracks and north to Maitland (the northernmost station in Orange County) with frequencies of 30 min peak and 60 min midday, evenings, and weekends.
I'm skeptical that there's actually a solid plan for OBX. It feels like a political promise that people in the future will have to deal with the mess of.
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3 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:
So looking at the height it looks like we're not even going to get 28 or 26 stories with these (new to me) renderings since they have partnered with Raven. I didn't count that many floors on these renderings which I haven't seen but they closely resemble what is currently being constructed. I'm upset we lost our proposed height and unit count because of crappy station next door. Could have been one hell of a SunRail Stop.
Those are old renderings from the 3 tower plan.
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It seems to me that this project is getting FAA height approval:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=476453198
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7 hours ago, codypet said:
The C03 stretch is way behind schedule. I feel like they're still at least a year or 2 away.
Brightline says they are a year away.
Do you have any details on progress in the C03 section? Have they run into problems with one of the bridges?
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On 1/23/2022 at 8:38 AM, Uncommon said:
Isn’t this video from last March? I could be wrong but I think any agreement is currently on hold until a route can be agreed on.
I don't think there's a grand route agreement to be had.
Brightline's planned route is along 417, and they are currently working to get environmental approval for that route. CFX has indicated willingness to cooperate with the 417 route, but they won't give the lease final approval until Brightline has received environmental clearance.
The main question now is how much time and cost pain Universal and Hunter's Creek can inflict during the environmental approval process.
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13 hours ago, CFL4Transit said:
Thank you for the excellent analysis! Totally agree with your perspective and opinions. SunRail for sure should run at least every 30 minutes. I would prefer to upgrade the rolling stock to at least DMUs in the short term and run every 15 minutes during peak hours just for Orange County, but there's probably not demand for that as yet, but TOD around SunRail stations instead of surface parking lots should definitely be a top priority.
We are also heavily advocating for safer streets for cyclists and pedestrians as part of the transportation spending. Orlando is regularly named the most dangerous city for cyclist and pedestrians. People are not going to want to ride the bus if they have a choice even with good service if simply walking to the stop puts your life at danger, especially on dangerous arterials like Colonial and Semoran.
We've have good conversations with LYNX planners and they understand these issues need to be addressed holistically to improve transit ridership, but they do not have the authority or capital budget to make the infrastructure upgrades necessary for safety improvements. Since the most dangerous roads are state owned, a lot of it is on FDOT to improve safety around transit stops, which is a serious obstacle to any Complete Streets or Vision Zero policy by local governments.
Also agree about not splitting service between Local and Limited. In LA they have moved away from this system by eliminating many of their MetroRapid bus routes in favor of reducing stops and increasing services on the local routes. However, the devil is in the details, if Local stops were every 1/4 mile and Limited stop every 1/2 mile then most stops would get still get frequent service. But we are also advocating to consolidate services into one frequent line instead of the split service proposed here
Our biggest concern would be without implementing bus lanes and other improvements to speed up slow service, bus bunching could occur making the frequent corridor service less useful. Another concern is whether transfers will be timed. It seems an overall philosophy is using the local network to transport commuters to regional hubs for fast direct service, either on Sunrail on the Regional Express Network. However, 30 minutes is not frequent enough to convince people to get out of their cars if the transfer from the local network to SunRail or the Express buses is not timed and you have to wait an additional 15-20 minutes or longer. We want a system that is good enough to convince people to switch to transit from driving, and we are not convinced this plan will do it either. BTW they have already implemented some of the new express network with the new Disney Express link 300 and the reimagining of route 38 as an express to Universal, both of which offer direct system every 30 minutes 7 days a week, without having to deal with parking! These Express routes and ones implemented in the future will also used the I-4 toll lanes, which is another point in their favor.The details you mention for successful service is what we want to focus on implementing to improve bus service for all. One big thing we want to see is fare systems that allow contactless payments so you can just tap your card instead of needing cash or putting up with their unwieldy app. Our tag line is we want service that is "Fast, Frequent, and Flexible". We are speaking with policy makers delivering a presentation that lays out the details on how to achieve these goals through things you mentioned like stop spacing, bus lanes, level boarding, and better wayfaring.
The best part about the proposed bus reimagining in our opinion is that it optimizes the network to make it more direct and less circuitous, and adds new service along streets like Lake Underhill and Goldenrod that are growing fast but currently lack service along the entire corridors. While the plan definitely has its share of flaws and is need of seriously refining, it would be such a massive upgrade over the current system, which is completely unreliable and dysfunctional. It has one route that operates every 15 minutes beside the downtown LYMMOs, and only 2 routes that operate every 20 minutes. Half of all routes come every hour. Lack of dedicated funding has prevented LYNX from effectively serving the region for decades. They have 300 buses for a service area of 2.1 million people. This is not acceptable.
Current riders have to either put with 2-3 hour one way commutes or buy a car even if they cannot afford the financial burden of car ownership because spending money on a car you cannot afford is better than being fired for being late due to LYNX being unreliable.
I'm lucky because I work from home, but I used to put up with 2 hour 30 min commutes 1 way to UCF from Metrowest just to attend class. This plan would cut many current riders commute times in half. Any plan that effectively doubles service will be a blessing to long suffering LYNX riders. I think overall the plan has more good than bad, and we hope to help refine and improve it, because the status quo is untenable.Regarding community engagement, the transportation tax going to be officially announced on 1/25/2022 at the Orange County BCC meeting, so that would be the first time for you or anyone else on this board to provide input to elected officials , either by showing up for a public comment, or emailing. I think your comments should be heard by officials, even if you just copied your comment from this board in an email! Thanks again for your insightful comments, we forward to continued engagement with you and other board members on this matter.
Here's a promotional image our groups are pushing to promote prioritizing transit rather than widening roads for the transportation funding.
In general, I feel that it's good to balance ambition with pragmatism. The current SunRail equipment is still young and good enough for 30-minute headways, so I'm be inclined to keep it for now and instead focus on making sure the next round of equipment isn't diesel. While a 30 minute frequency isn't super convenient, I see having it as a consistent all day frequency as being the point where someone can take SunRail to a medical appointment or a sporting event or dinner with friends without worrying about getting stranded there because there is no train home is coming anytime soon. Moving towards 15 minute service might also create more need for level boarding, which will be complicated and expensive to accomplish, if it's possible at all. In any case, electrification/modernization/transformation of SunRail should be a higher priority than the Orange Blossom Express line.*
I'm also cautious about demanding bus lanes, because while I would love to have them everywhere I understand that there are many places where physical and legal constraints will make them near impossible, and at some point it becomes better just move forward with a program of BRT-lite upgrades rather than arguing indefinitely about how dedicated bus lanes would be better. I think I've heard of BRT-lite projects creating significant travel time savings (20%?), but again that requires getting all the little details right. Unfortunately this report doesn't say much about how Lynx might publicly distinguish among the top levels of upgraded bus corridors, which could be a big miss if they don't have a flashy plan of upgrades to be promoted this year.
On the issue of split services, if there is demand for stops every 1/4 mile, then those stops should be available for every bus on the route. If there isn't much demand to justify high frequency bus service stopping at a certain location, then there just shouldn't be a stop there - but that's something that should be determined based on specific circumstances and neighborhood engagement. Another advantage of running the high frequency routes as 1 service on 10 minute frequency instead of 2 every 20 minutes is that timed connections with those routes aren't too much of an issue because they come frequently anyway. Beyond that, I absolutely agree that there should be timed connections between the local routes, express routes, and SunRail because otherwise the express routes won't be very useful.
I also agree with your positions on fare collection and safe station access, and I hope the BCC can be convinced to increase the transit funding share enough for those issues to be fully addressed.
*To expand upon what my rail priorities would be if funding were increased, improvements to SunRail are definitely be at the top of the list. I'm really intrigued by the idea of having an automated light metro that runs Lake Nona - airport - sand lake sunrail - florida mall - OCCC - along I-drive or universal blvd - universal parking garages because it would have a ton of jobs and tourist attractions along it and offer good connections to every major north/south bus corridor in the southern portion of the county (I-drive, Kirkman, 441/OBT, Orange Ave, 436/Semoran), but it would also cost a ton. After that is Orange Blossom Express with as much all day frequency as possible. Of course it would be great to have an east/west rail line in the Colonial corridor as well, but getting right of way for that near downtown is going to be really painful and most of the corridor is car oriented rather than being a nice string of places to connect, so it's further down my personal priority list.-
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On 1/10/2022 at 11:47 AM, CFL4Transit said:
Hi to all the passionate urbanists in this board,
Central Floridians for Public Transit (CFL4Transit) is a nonpartisan organization that advocates for improved transit in Greater Orlando. We are accelerating our efforts in 2022 to anticipation of Mayor Demings' transportation funding initiative for Orange County being put on the ballot for the November election. We want to ensure the funding is spent effectively and efficiently if passed, and is dedicated primarily to improving our inadequate transit system, rather than expanding roads and infrastructure for cars.If you would like to learn more about our organization or join the fight for reliable high quality transit in our community, you can reach us at [email protected], follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, or sign up for our mailing list.
We would also love to facilitate a discussion about this board's preferred actions for spending any dedicated transit funding to improve transit in Orange County. Community engagement is part of our mission to create a plan that provides frequent, fast, and flexible transit for our region so we do not fall further behind the rest of the country and world for public transit.
Thanks to all for the lively and passionate conversations this board produces!
CFL4TransitThe first thing is that SunRail should run every 30 minutes all day, 7 days a week. The infrastructure for it already exists and it's an easy way to increase ridership and drive TOD at the stations. If we want transit oriented development to happen, then the transit service needs to good enough to be worth orienting around.
I would also like to see a strong focus on doing the quick, cheap, and easy things that make buses nicer to use like shelters, wayfinding, and bike/ped access to stops. Of course service frequency needs to increase dramatically too, but I think we all know that.
I have reservations about rail because the high cost and long timelines make it a lower return investment, especially when hesitancy over service frequency is involved. I'm very skeptical that a SunRail line along Brightline's tracks will provide much mobility benefit to residents for reasons I detailed here, but I also understand that I stand relatively alone in that opinion.
On 1/11/2022 at 4:23 PM, CFL4Transit said:So there's actually a good plan called the Orange County Transit Plan that LYNX developed arising from their LYNX Forward initiative a few years back. It reimagines the entire bus system and doubles service, creating a series of frequent corridors and regional express buses complemented by local routes and SunRail. The plan has yet to be conveyed by policy makers who are likely not familiar with the technical details. While bus upgrades are not as flashy as expensive rail projects, they are the workhorse of our system. We need to build a high quality bus system before we can focus on building additional rail, which we also strongly support. If you're interested in viewing the Orange County Transit Plan, you can view a copy here! https://drive.google.com/file/d/12cjGk909Li1LP0uYRhayNj891z_YpwiK/view?usp=sharing
However, we completely agree with you about needing to hear specific project proposals from Mayor Demings. We are working on developing our own vision for the transportation funding. This includes projects like BRT with bus lanes on every major corridors, a 24/7 owl bus network, electrifying Sunrail, running it frequently, and working with Brightline to extend it to Universal and Disney, along with policy changes like integrated fares and better wayfinding. We hope to help shape the conversation and ensure a clear message and effective plan is present before the voters decide in November.
The way I read things, that document IS Mayor Demings' plan, so any lobbying might need to use it as a starting point.
The planned express bus network seems good, and I like that most of its routes are designed to run every 30 minutes all day between key economic centers rather than being peak only commuter routes.
The idea of creating high frequency routes is also great, but the implementation seems flawed. Splitting the frequency between "local" and "limited" services each running every 20 minutes means that many stops won't actually get high frequency service, and it would get even worse on evenings and weekends when the local would switch to 30 minute headways so the services wouldn't even alternate nicely. My understanding of successful BRT-lite projects in other cities is that they're really about getting all the small details right: frequency, stop spacing, near vs. far side, bus bulbs vs pull-over spaces, level or near level boarding, interaction with bike lanes, transit signal priority, off board fare payment, bus design, shelter design, wayfinding and branding, etc. This report doesn't inspire confidence that Lynx understands what it takes to make these types of routes successful. The goal should be to get enough of the small details right that their collective improvement in comfort and travel times is enough that multiple service levels aren't needed along the same corridor.
I'm also curious about the large number of bus transfer centers proposed in the plan, because I really hope that they are focused at key locations and don't require long and slow diversions to places people don't want to go.
Unlike the bus portions, the rail aspects of this plan mostly feel like a disaster. The only parts I like are the Sunrail infill station at Holden Ave, somewhat increased Sunrail service, and the lack of Sunrail on Brightline's tracks. It mentions that a light rail line could be built between OIA and OCCC, but rather than actually proposing to build it, the plan is just to set a few dollars aside in case a private partner comes along? And for Orange Blossom Express the plan is to start with high frequency buses to "develop the market", but not to a high enough level for federal funding, so Orange County alone will spend 800 million to set up a commuter rail service that only runs every 60 minutes off peak? This is pretty insane.
A better rail plan is needed, but we should also recognize that there are challenges in that. The current Sunrail line runs through multiple counties, and electrification doesn't make sense unless the whole line can be electrified. That means electrification should probably wait until the current trains are getting older and the other partners might be willing to participate. Another big thing is service levels:
14 hours ago, CFL4Transit said:The Orange Blossom Express line is still under consideration in Orange County only since Lake County does not want it. I think it would be a good line to serve the busy 441 corridor if it could be delivered at reasonable cost and operated frequently, which is unlikely with typical high USA transit construction costs and infrequent commuter rail operating models, but nevertheless it's a good line in theory, especially with all the new development in the Packing District and Rosemont.
The part of this I bolded is incredibly important because people can't ride theory to work. The benefit of a transit line is only as good as the service provided, so if a high quality, frequent service isn't going to be run then the infrastructure investment is being wasted. This is why I view all day 30 minute service on the existing Sunrail as so important - if frequent service won't be run on existing infrastructure, why should we ever believe that future infrastructure investments will be used effectively?
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On 1/9/2022 at 3:14 PM, prahaboheme said:
It’s certainly an improvement over the abysmal Central Station next door which almost immediately showed its age.
I agree that the proposals continually downsized (some in height and others in ambition) since the Pizzuti proposal years ago.
What could make this project exciting bought be an announcement of a major retailer.
They definitely have lots of retail space available:
https://retailproperties.cbre.us/p/retail-real-estate-listings/Orlando-FL-32801/societyorlando#plans
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They removed a level from the podium which also reduces the total tower heights, so it seems like most of the lost space was going to be parking.
I'm not too sad about losing a couple hundred parking spaces on the most transit accessible parcel in Central Florida.
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I think that the only way NS ever allows commuter trains on the O-line is with a long term extension to their lease/control of the NCRR and only for the life of that lease.
Alternatively, if intercity passenger rail is more important, NCDOT could call NS's O-line bluff at the end of their NCRR lease and take control of the NCRR to prioritize fast, frequent intercity passenger service with local and more limited through freight scheduled and dispatched around it.
I just don't see a way to get frequent passenger trains on both lines without spending a ridiculous amount of money.
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1 hour ago, F-L-A said:
I'm confused. If these are the same angles, how does the taller tower (the only one u/c so far) suddenly become the shorter tower? I'm also seeing less floors in the pedestal, which makes me wonder what they've done to the rest of the building.
I think those renderings are still from the 3 tower version. But even from newer renderings, there is a floor missing in the pedestal.
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2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:
I still hold out hope that one day Orlando will dust off the OSCAR plans and move forward with light rail and streetcar options.
It still bothers me to this day that one vote killed Orlando’s light rail proposal. We can only wonder just how different the city would have grown if it were 20 years and running (I guess we can look to Charlotte for that).
Doesn't Lymmo cover most of what OSCAR was planned to do? What would be the reason for switching from buses to streetcars?
I don't expect any light rail proposals anytime soon. The problem is that there just isn't enough right-of-way downtown for light rail to be viable, nor any money available to build it.
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On 12/1/2021 at 4:35 PM, prahaboheme said:
Niche.com rankings for Florida’s best neighborhoods skew overwhelmingly to Tampa and Orlando. Miami enters the list in the top 30 (mainly due to affordability factor — or lack of).
All the more reason to preserve what makes those neighborhoods in Orlando rank so highly on that list while the option is available.
What should we be doing to preserve the affordability of these neighborhoods?
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On 11/26/2021 at 10:33 AM, spenser1058 said:
Volusia County is looking at trying again to raise its sales tax, looking at a vote in 2024.
An effort in 2019 was defeated with 55% against. One of the problems with the previous effort was a perception too much of the money would have gone to new roads encouraging sprawl rather than to fix existing roads. Many think the real estate industrial complex tried (as usual), with help from elected officials, to co-opt the increased funds for their own profit.
This time, there’s an effort to devise a grassroots effort to show citizens how it would improve their lives instead of lining the pockets of developers. Stay tuned.
From The News Journal
Here in Orange County, where we’ve also got a sales tax election coming up in 2022, the 2019 experience in Volusia is something to keep in mind as the tourism industry attempts to direct all the benefits to the southwest quadrant of OC.
I'm not expecting to love Orange County's project list, but I do get the sense that Mayor Demings understands the political playbook for getting these things passed so I'm cautiously optimistic that he can get it done in fall 2022. I don't see all of the benefits going to the southwest portion of the county but I will be curious to hear the tourism industry's position on the measure given the fight over Brightline's route to Tampa and corresponding Sunrail implications.
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I thought there were supposed to be 4 stories of parking, not 3?
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5 hours ago, Jerry95 said:The idea that green/shaded public spaces and affordable housing are not key to any successful city/town/truck stop is absurd.
Orlando is a city of neighorhoods, each with its own appeal. And if you look at the successful and trendy areas of this city it’s not the areas with high rises. I love dense mixed use as much as the next person but we haven’t cracked the code on how to make it not lifeless. Until then I’ll advocate for the pink apartments to stay, for a signature redevelopment of the Sentinel site and for Mills to go on a road diet all while driving my way over to Beefy King for lunch.
The idea that "we haven’t cracked the code on how to make it not lifeless" is absurd.
The problem of building lively urban environments was solved centuries ago, as a look at any historical European city would show. A more accurate statement is that we haven't been willing to accept the ways of making it not lifeless. How to build lively "dense mixed use" environments:
Streets are a big part of it. When the majority of a street right of way is dedicated to moving lots of cars fast, you get the liveliness of metal and glass instead of the liveliness of people. Slowing and reducing car traffic so protected bike lanes and wider sidewalks can be added makes a big difference in the amount of street activity.
Sidewalks and how buildings connect with them also matters a lot. Narrow, unshaded sidewalks adjacent to blank walls or parking with frequent curb cuts are a lot less welcoming than wide sidewalks with shade trees and seating and lots of pedestrian access points to directly adjacent buildings.
Of course green/shaded space is important, but a random tree or two on a privately held lawn is among the least valuable forms of green space because it's high maintenance, not publicly accessible, and not deluding anyone into thinking it's actually a natural environment. Any dense redevelopment of Lake Ivanhoe Shores (or the Sentinel site, since you mentioned it) should absolutely be expected to include lots of street trees and some small green/pedestrian spaces where people can walk or relax outside, along with Loch Haven Park being only a 1/2 mile away for the occasional activity that requires more space.
Density of residential units is also a critical piece because a certain number of people are required to support vibrant commercial activity, but that doesn't mean that tons of high rises are needed. It's not hard to build sufficient density using 4 to 6 story buildings provided that a bunch of them are built together rather than as single buildings. (Again, look at Europe.) Having to build 300+ square feet of parking for every unit doesn't help with density or affordability, but that is a surmountable issue and should be even more reason to invest in transit and building lively, walkable urban spaces.
2 hours ago, Jerry95 said:I just don’t think keeping up with the jones’s is the right move for this particular parcel. The fundamental question is whether or not the parcel is broken. It’s on a quieter side of the lake right next to a major interstate. It’s basically a dead end. Of all the parcels to develop this just feels like the wrong one to want to see razed.
To your point - how can we develop a better city if we do not accommodate the people who give it life? Surely the janitor, the barista, the teacher, the lawyer, the doctor, and the waiter should all be able to live in their city, close to their work. We cannot be a playground for the rich, we must be a playground for all. And we cannot be a sandbox for developers to swoop in, swoop out and leave us with a crappy tall wooden box. We know what we’ll get - apartments there cost more than the Yard and Lake House and I just don’t know who can afford those things.
What parcels do you see as the right ones to be razed?
Because where you see "the quieter side of a lake next to a major interstate," I see 9+ contiguous acres of older low density buildings and surface parking only 2 miles from the CBD and directly adjacent to a main arterial road leading there, along with being next to a rail line where if the transit service was frequent and all day an infill stop could easily be justified there by having 2k+ residential units within 1/4 mile after redevelopment. If you have any interest in building midrise modern urbanism, this is as good a place as any.
Not building anything won't preserve affordability on a large scale. We all know that people are moving to Orlando and refusing to allow the construction of more housing will just drive up the prices of existing housing according to the laws of supply and demand.
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On 11/4/2021 at 12:30 PM, uncreativeusername said:
This phrasing^ makes it sound like the two daily round trips will cost $12 billion - but that is the total for all of Amtrak's intercity expansion nationally.
I have nothing to offer on a discussion regarding potential usage within Florida, but we should be clear about the actual numbers...
To be more specific, the bill includes $66 billion for intercity passenger rail, which breaks down as follows (all spread evenly over 5 years):
- $22 billion in direct grants to Amtrak for rolling stock upgrades, station accessibility improvements, and other capital improvements to Amtrak owned infrastructure
- $36 billion (max of 24 to the northeast corridor) for "Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail" grants, which are competitive grants for intercity passenger rail projects that require a minimum 20% non-federal funding share
- $5 billion for the competitive "Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements (CRISI)" grant program, which awards funds for almost any type of railroad infrastructure project, but generally for single, small projects and again non-federal funding contributions are required
- $3 billion for a new grade crossing elimination grant program
The quick takeaway from this is that new Amtrak services aren't going to happen unless FDOT puts up money to make them happen (both for capital improvements and ongoing service subsidy). I really doubt FDOT wants to compete with Brightline, so more trains are unlikely.
Also, Amtrak has no real expansion plan. Their so-called plan is really just a marketing pitch to advertise (to states and municipalities) that federal rail funding is becoming available and Amtrak is willing to work with anyone who has an idea and some local funding to go with it. As an example of their plan not being serious, "Amtrak told CNN Business that to calculate trip times for most of its proposed new routes it researched passenger train times in the mid-1950s to early 1960s and chose the best trip time." https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/tech/amtrak-speed-trains/index.html
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Ticket search on Brightline's website suggests that the Miami to WPB segment will restart service on November 1st.
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2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:
I definitely want rail, too, but this isn’t for us. We, as residents, aren’t even in the equation. Other cities wouldn’t accept this (except maybe Vegas and surely we’re better than that), so why should we. It’s the tourism cabal dictating to us just like they have to Daytona all these years but on a larger scale.
We can be more but it’s all up to us.
If Brightline is serious about privately funding an intercity line along 417 then we should accept that, though.
I hope Orange County doesn't get coerced into funding a tourist train while there are so many more local transit needs.
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1 hour ago, FLClarkKent said:
An OCCC stop for Brightline just doesn't make sense to me (and I don't have a dog in this particular hunt).
A Disney stop makes some sense. Families take the train to Disney Spring, then transfer to their hotels on whatever system Disney puts into place. It could be practical.
But conventioneers taking a train to the OCCC? They'll do what exactly? Drag their suitcases through the concourses? Lug their suitcases down the street to whatever hotel they might be staying at? It doesn't seem practical, and if it's not practical, it won't work (at least not in large enough numbers). Plus, the people who work these conventions (the meeting planners, conference teams/staff, A/V professionals, etc.) won't use a train. Again, it just doesn't seem like a recipe for success.
In theory conventioneers could transfer to their hotels in the same way as families going to Disney, but in reality neither conventioneers or families will be excited about about a train to bus/shuttle transfer.
From a transportation perspective, a Disney Springs stop and an OCCC stop are very similar. In both cases the stop would be relatively close to places where lots of people want to go, but neither would be close enough for most people to avoid a last mile transfer. So both would do well as intercity rail stops (where a last mile transfer is less of an issue), but would likely struggle attracting ridership as a local connection to the airport.
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I'm optimistic that tower 2 happens and that phase 1 includes some sort of grocery store.
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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:
I wonder if parcel X-1 is the tall one next to I-4 in this rendering...
I believe the parcel names should actually be X, X-1, and Y, but yes the apartments are in the tall building shown near I-4, the office is to the west of that with "CREA" on the side, and the hotel is just to the north of the office.
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Downtown Orlando Project Discussion
in Orlando
Posted
Removing parking minimums in the CDB is good but having the only citywide reduction be for detached single family housing is not.