Nashvilletitans
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Posts posted by Nashvilletitans
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Whether the number is growth of 5000 a year or 20,000 year. As a city we can over build but we could not possible over plan. There are many factors that will effect that growth -the regions economy, trends, how Nashville responds to this growth........ 5 years ago they projected consistent growth -now they project a faster growth rate. No one knows what the future will be. My point was we should plan for the higher growth rates such that the plan is a true plan dealing with the worst or perhaps best situation for the future. My other point was that if the middle tennessee is to grow by an additional 1M person over time that shouldn't nashville try to attract 40% to 50% of those persons. and the remainder in surrounding counties. Nashville next I believe was targeting something like 15%. If the remainder goes to the surrounding counties that destroys thousands and thousands of acres of farmland to suburban sprawl. Never to be open space again.
Davidson county has a fair amount of land left that one cannot build on with steep slopes or floods. this land will stay undeveloped. There is about 330,000 acres in davidson county we are down to a few thousand acres that one can truly build on. the day of 500 acre subdivisions in nashville are long gone. There is very little land left in the county that is not steep slopes.
In 1810 nashville population was 1100 persons by 1910 nashville had a population of 110,000 and 2010 the population was 625,000 people. 100 years of growth Nashville has built out from its core and housed and roaded up almost all the land one can build on. The past was building outward and and get a car and now the future for nashville is to build upward and take a form a transit.
For 200 years almost all growth went laterally out. (and consumed almost all of the land in the county) for the next 200 years we will be forced to go vertically up with growth. That was something I do not think Nashville next participants nor perhaps even I can grasp. The day of subdivisions in nashville are dead.
If we build vertically in the core and specific density centers in suburbia and can come up with a real master transit concept then we will not run out space- no matter how many people move to nashville
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That reads like you're describing a mini-Atlanta. Something I know none of us really want but I'm afraid we're almost predestined for such an outcome. The inertia of public opinion towards road-building versus mass transit in the mid-south region may simply be too great to overcome within the critical decision-making timeframes--which are fast approaching.
If the city is going to grow ( and we probably will ) there is no where else to put the people. we won't be adding all the growth of residences in downtown/midtown just some of it. so the rest must "infill" in suburbia. In the vast perimeter of the county where there may be 1/3 ,1/2 arce or 1 acre lots of suburbia it will be hard to squeeze many residential units in existing subdivision.
there is basically no land left except in the north west part of the county.
makes more sense to me if we made density centers say like green hills. Now imagine a master plan of green hills that takes what is already there and over a 25year period we fill it in the parking lots with new buildings and green space and mix use. More jobs and apartments and no cars. make it all walkable and take out the cars in its center and make them buildings and parks/greenways that connect the area. and park on perimeter in structures. Add buses and we "walk" connect to other centers of the future.
could start with a master plan where the new higher mix use density might be 6 blocks by ten blocks for first ten years. then add more adjacent blocks the next ten years. this way everyone knows what is coming. keep the growth out of the surrounding neighborhoods. for existing people in the core if the don't like it so much there property value went way up because of the upgrade in zoning rights so they can move or live on the 6 floor of the new mid rise built.
If you have a good master plan that you stick with the concept It might be a great place to live and add diversity to city as well (jobs with accessible work force-and even maybe less traffic) as mass transit connecting the hubs with a circulator in each of the hubs. I am not sure I want to put 100's of thousands of people 30 miles outside of nashville and ship them in on interstates or train.
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21c Museum hotel going in front of MDHA to allow 7 rooftop suite. I think this would effectively add a floor to the building.
Yes a partial roof addition. it was approved by historic comm in april as well. Nice project
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...a rather sobering assessment (and a welcome one, given the evident "crow's nest" vantage point). I guess in consideration of what had been the driving force (and spin) behind the plan, we just have that much more to look ahead to in terms of a level of optimism for enlightened horizons, come next term or two. At least what can be assumed is that the "Gladiator" contestants have to vie that much harder to win divided support this time around.
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Yes I found it interesting that the old plan 2010 has been outdated for several years and that the mayor waited to the end of his term to do the new study and plan. oh course I was hoping for some more controversial discussions and ideas since they intentionally waited till mayors term was not having to run again. but at least it was done that is what good leadership is about!
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With all the NIMBy's at the meetings it was much safer and quicker to do a plan for 150k for nashville. And not have to worry so much about the mess of 850k outside nashville and what that means and or how nashville's only getting 15% of the growth and will that effect our tax base or allocation of money over those years of growth.
The task was to do a nashville next plan with all these people involved thru this long process and congratulations we did it. that what government is good for and we did it. And the staff did the best they could. The mayor can say all this good stuff about the process and get a lot of credit for whatever. Unfortunately most of the plan will probably not bet done they way it is outlined anyway. I do believe it was worth effort. Almost any plan is better than no plan.
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You did, eh? (hm-m-m-m-m. this "staff")
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Yep.......... of course are the staff really interest ( and if they are really interested do they have the time -No they had a rigors schedule with lots of deadlines) in rocking the boat. The staff had a process they were committed to sticking to(which I can respect) and there was not any room for distractions
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Now you know why I would vote for you as a Write-in, don't you?
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I value my time to much to want to be mayor. Uh and the friends they have to keep. There are other ways to help nashville be a great city and change for the future.
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To expand upon this, reducing curb radii at intersections benefits pedestrian users by reducing crosswalk length and vehicle turning speed. It represents a trade-off between the interests of vehicular and pedestrian traffic, though it seems like most people in the transportation infrastructure business just want to focus on one at the detriment of the other.
While we obviously don't need 300' radii with slip lanes in the CBD, it's also important not to forget about vehicles, not simply for reasons of capacity and safety as mentioned, but also because there exists a minimum radius that a given type of vehicle can turn at any speed. You decide to ignore that minimum, you end up with this—
—which is a long-term maintenance problem, shortening the lifespan of the curb and leading to ADA compliance problems. I'm also told that people don't like having their toes run over by trucks while they are standing on the sidewalk. Whiners, the lot.
The new section of KVB has 20' radii; the old section has a mixture ranging from 40' to 5' (pictured above). I think 20' is a reasonable compromise considering the truck traffic to and from the MCC.
Metro GIS shows that parcel corners are rounded only up to Fourth Avenue, and even then some of those are squared off.
Also, I like rounded corners too. Turns some of our glass boxes into glass beveled rectangular prisms.
Ist thru fourth were the first phase construction done years ago. I believe that perhaps they did not do this in the KVB expansion because they realized that in phase one the first four blocks that they did not need to repeat the same mistake. I vividly remember when they were doing the drawings before they built gateway/KVB I spoke to the planning staff and they were unaware that the parcels had radius corners. they told me it was to late to change. I remember that clearly because I thought it was foolish then - I am glad that phase two did not repeat the same mistake(in my opinion)
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>>>500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year.
What is the source of this data? What geography is it for? According the projections I've seen Nashville/Metro/Davidson County is expected to grow by 100k-120k over the next 20 years.
There is no source for predicting the future. But perhaps 1M people might move to nashville vicinity in 20 or 30 years. Depending how attractive and how we plan and resolve growth problems will determine how many will choose to located in nashville or outside of nashville. Just like how we plan our future growth means how many companies will locate in nashville our outside of nashville. there is no number. the number is determined my the market and how attractive the product of growth is. If we do a great job planning our growth we could get maybe half the growth in nashville (which would be good for out tax base only if we can keep a good quality of life).
And if we get 100k of the future 1M growth nashville will be in big trouble tax base wise and boy the communtes on the future 10 lane interstates and the construction -that is a terrible outcome for our great city. Why would we want to make a plan that puts nashville in a terrible position. And if the outside nashville gets 900k in the future all the money will have to be spent dealing with that problem leaving nashville weak and broke. then if nashville is weak and broke the perimeter will suffer as well. So plan for a good future
I have been scratching my head over this issue with nashville next concept - they are trying to make a plan of the eventual downfall of nashville in a way. I discussed it with the staff. I think it was challenging enough for them to make a plan for 150k of growth. ( of course they did not solve the mess of the outside growth of say 850 K-that is someone else's problem) Maybe they felt it was to big a challenge for the staff and participants to come up with a plan for 500k growth. Now that would be a great plan and if we only got 150k then easy solution there I think it is better to raise the bar and plan on real prosperity and not the crumbs
so you are right their is no source of data. but I would rather fight and project a great nashville that out numbers the surrounding cities
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I was hoping this was not the case. I wonder if we are domed by our own success.
I thought part of our brand was that we would be smarter in growth
Luckily there an election and a new mayor and mostly new council. I hope that one of the biggest issues in the election will be quality of life issues such as traffic/transit/open space and good quality growth.
Would like to see someone that understands the problem but is not a broken politition with aspirations of their own grandeur. Need someone who is smart and understands that change (which is what we badly need before it is to late) is going to make a lot of people mad in the short run but happy in the long run. The neighborhoods and nimbyism in my opinion are too powerful in this town for their own good. Neighborhoods as a whole want the development anywhere but their neighborhood. Easiest solution for neighborhoods is say midtown downtown. Takes only a few years of large fast growth to creat traffic nightmares in gulch/sobro/vanderbilt areas.
500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year. how do we solve this growth by neighborhood
West nashville Bellemeade/hillwood... 100
North nashville downtown 2000
Downtown 2000
Vanderbilt/midtown 1000
east nashville 1000
north west nashville 300
as you can see we are concentrating all our growth to the center which makes sense but we have no transit plan in place. One can only grow this much in the center for a limited number of years.
How do we solve this puzzle each year. year after year and not hit saturation point. We will at some point in very near future have to creat higher density centers away from the core such as green hills, belle meade, charlotte/sylvan park, south nashville maybe bells bend etc. creat an outer ring of density centers that are interconnected. That have there own cores and transit hubs that could cannect to downtown core
change is much better than the final results without change. Change can have a plan that could be followed verses no real plan and only solutions are bandages that are expensive and nearly imposable to successful implement. All that is left is a scared body that is prone to infections.
So lets support candidates that are willing to talk about real change and sacrifices that we must make to adopt real change
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What is going on in the gulch area is exciting. So much great activity. When I drive down to the heart of the gulch I sometimes get stuck in traffic. There are not many ways to get into the gulch. What if any are the best ways to avoid bad traffic into the gulch? Also is there a plan for dealing with traffic as more of these buildings get built.
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Good turning radii are very beneficial in improving traffic capacity and safety. They allow vehicles to make a turn at a reasonable speed without coming to an almost complete stop, which causes other through-traffic to come to a stop, thus increasing delay significantly and often increasing the number of rear-end collisions.
But this is a typical argument in public planning and engineering circles. Over the years, traffic and transportation Engineers have had to battle against planners who are willing to sacrifice public safety and roadway efficiency for some immeasurable and marginal increase in some vague aesthetic concept. Talk about goofy!
Also, I sometimes like buildings with round corners.
Go Titans.
Rounding out corners of parcels does not enhance or effect the radius of the street curb and roads it only demonstrates the disconnect of the designs and concept from their priorities. An engineer who was not monitored and had a circle template. I also like a rounded corner once in a while but not for every block on both sides of KVB
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Solving long range issues such as transit and open space take good planning, consistent planning, commitment, and eliminating political distractions. Nashville Rarely has had any of these qualities. Sobro is a perfect example of where we could have changed from these old unsuccessful patterns. We did a few things right in the beginning. (on a 0 to 10 scale -- 10 is good) in somewhat chronological order.
1. Build a iconic bridge with a visionary name (gateway) +9
2. Outline a wide pedestrian friendly 130 foot wide away headed toward gulch with bus concepts and wide sidewalks-connecting east and west +9
3. Creat design standards for development on proposed gateway blvd- tall buildings engaging a pedestrian friendly street. +9
4. Locate the future new convention center and hotel on the new blvd. +9
5. There is riverfront park and MDHA rolling mill sites for future dev +9
At this point everything looks to good to be true-what a great plan for a future sobro.
6. Past Mayor wanted a pet project with his name on it so he pushed for development of rolling mill hill- way too soon and project has not design connection to gateway blvd (and still does't) +3 (could have been a +9 if design had concepts connected to KVB)
7. Public works and TDOT design new blvd with small sidewalks, rounded city blocks, tree barrier in center of road, plans to widen street and turn lanes in future, and no transit or pedestrian concepts +2 (could have been a +9 if they did not have PW design project and stuck to original plan concepts)
8. Councilman who was a korean war vet. wants to honor vets so council changes gateway bridge to Korean vet. memorial bridge +2
9. Everyone still calls the bridge Gateway so councilman changes name of street from gateway blvd to korean vet. blvd. +2 (Better Being on the South Korea side than North Korea side)
10. developer builds Hampton Inn with a door on KVB that is locked +2 (Did not have to be this way)
11. MDHA designs and builds convention center with little focus on KVB and puts primary focus on Dem. street and a great new side street plaza facing convention center hotel +3 (could have added focus to KVB +7)
12. Developer designs and builds convention center hotel with an entrance on KVB +7
13. Build roundabout on KVB +7
14. City gives approval and permits for additional hotels on KVB with little street presence and very little retail +4
15 downtown partnership does buses shuttling people to free parking to LP field parking but does not stop on KVB +3 ( Shuttles could stop on KVB +9)
15. Public works quietly starts adding more traffic lanes and turn lanes to KVB with no planning of mass transit +2
16 more parcels on KVB are being purchased for more hotels -developers do there own thing -good or bad +5 (future projects could enhance KVB but are not +8)
17 design and build riverfront park and amphtheater that puts toilets on KVB +6 (design could have a relationship to KVB +9)
18 traffic is already bad on KVB with no transit concepts and many more buildings to come +1
19 maybe relocate the baptist office concept to rolling mill site on corner of 1st and KVB +2 (Could be good but it won't)
Where did we go wrong with such a good plan and a good start
Unfortunately it is the structure of our city government and how they do things or perhaps don't manage ideas into reality. The part that is sad was nashville was a pioneer consolidating city and county gov. Looks like we need to do something or we will continue making the design and administrative mistakes.
I am in favor of a smaller council from 40 self serving leaders to perhaps 27 that will work as a team.
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Example The time to tackle problems such as open space and transit is before we infill all the neighborhoods. Since this forum is Sobro area it would make sense that we i.e. Planning would want to determine were the transit corridors should be to connect to downtown. such as KVB and 2nd ave s. This in turn might mean we would encourage city parking structures on these transit/pedestrian/parking corridors. Perhaps the bus city circulars might start driving on these routes or the current free parking to buses to LP field might begin driving and stop on these routes(which they do not). These routes would have wider sidewalks for pedestrian travel as well or maybe connect to river greenway as well. these routes may connect current or future pocket parks along way such as new riverfront park...
Many of these ideas are and have been floating out there. but the way I see it we do not follow thru with the ideas over time. Example the Gateway Blvd and Bridge now KVB was studied and agreed upon by design meetings with public and the community should be a pedestrian friendly road. it has one of the widest Right of ways. But the process failed us over time. The public works department with the state designed the road years later with side walks 8 feet wide per side. The publics works department designed the road for road expansion not pedestrian friendly concepts starting with 4 lanes now becoming 6 or 7 lanes still with 8 foot sidewalks. They even made the parcels fronting KVB with radius so cars could turn easier on the roads. Not thinking that now all the future high rise buildings on KVB will have round edges, block after block. how goofy is that. the point of this is that even when there is good intensions "to design KVB pedestrian friendly" it is handed off to public works who truly cares very little about pedestrians and more concerned about roads flowing fast even around corners. Or design guidelines for KVB controlled by MDHA that requires bldgs fronting it to have street presence. Another good idea-then city builds a beautiful Convention center and this building that fronts several blocks of KVB has very little street presence. Irony of this MDHA wrote the guidelines and is the convention center developer and reviewed the guidelines and enforced them on themselves. NOT . Another example of good ideas presented to community but not followed thru by various agencies. MDHA had there own priorities and did not program the KVB guidelines into their project.
I do not mean to be a negative Nancy. We as a community go thru planning processes time and again but the ideas usually are not implemented by the other government agencies. There is no accountability with the these various agencies. There are so many with their own agendas as well as politics. MDHA, public works, historic commission, planning, and mayors office. I think we need a planning guru within one of the departments in charge of watching all of these projects over time to make sure they comply with design intents. I think it takes that consistent long range plan that we have to stick to make progress on these big issues such as transit or open space issues. Nashville typically does the legwork in studying the problem and spends the money. But we often don't build what we planned.
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I agree that most of the posters have good intentions and good insights. You are right that we need more out of our developers and most importantly our city leaders.
I remember a few years ago when a developer went out on a limb and proposed a pioneering long range walkable green concept development that involved change. It was about walkability, green buildings, green open spaces, farming, lang range planing, mass transit, economics and jobs. It was probably the most cutting edge idea that was tacking growth and traffic issues. It was in Nashville's bells bend. Because it was visionary the leadership of nashville would not touch it and the nimby's disguised it as a monster and scared everyone away from it.
Another great project potential is the old convention center site, It will probably will be good project. but there is potential for whole lot more. My philosophy about buildings is they should contribute to the betterment of the area they are located in and not be just buildings full of people. Unfortunately this takes strong city leadership, good planning departments, and city vision, and consistency with leadership,
I think we need big new ideas that no is talking about very much and hope this forum will discuss. Otherwise Atlanta here we come.
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I have been reading urban planet for years and never posted. Nashville is at critical junction in terms of growth. We have a great opportunity now. We are in the spot light nationwide. What will we do with this opportunity. Will we throw up (literally) very building that investors want because they see a demand for office buildings, apartments, hotels, and restaurants. Or will be prudent. So far a lot of throw up. Not that aesthetics is everything. The real issue in fast growth is the big picture BALANCE. As we throw up mid rises and high rises -crane after crane pop up. But is this energy, growth all good. This is the time we should be looking not up at the beauty of high rises but looking down at our streets, sidewalks, traffic, and transit. Quality of life in nashville and I will add great buildings is not based on scale but on detail. Great design is not just on that beautiful top to that building (which is important) but in making the building work within the environment it resides in- the street, the people using the building, look up and down, relating to history. Celebrating being there-not just glass, metal, and concrete.
As Nashville grows at this tremendous pace we should be looking for new answers to solving old and new problems. These new answers are not being talked about and we get distracted by all the glitter and wrapping of our packages. I fear we will infill so much that our downtown and mid town will be too conjested and our suburbia will be spread out to infinity.
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Generally speaking for a city such as Nashville to build buildings that are considered great/interesting architecture all of these issues need to happen
1. It takes a client and architect who appreciates and knows what is good architecture . This is rare.
2. You have to have a site that can resolve design issues such as parking, sky exposure plane,.... that will not compromise good design principles which you hope the architect understands.
3. You have to have a client that has a budget that can spend the extra money to spend the thousands to millions of dollars on aesthetic issues, building tops, building exteriors, building interiors. These are very rare.
4. You have to have client who gives the architect the extra time to study a variety of design solutions in the early phases of the design process where one of the priority You want a great design concept.
5. You need a client and architect that wants a balance of building function, economics, and esthetics. Where esthetics carries as much wait as the other two. This is very rare.
6. We need to raise the design bar higher building by building such that aesthetic design becomes more competitive such that we challenge owners and architects to struggle to have better looking buildings than their neighbors.
7. Need owners and architects that will take a huge risk on designing great new buildings for nashville.
All these issues are difficult when one is risking a 100M and in a city that is not known for taking a lot of chances
We do need to celebrate every project that takes these chances and hope others do the same
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Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville
in Nashville
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Change does stink for G. H. nimby's living near proposed 17 story building. traffic is terrible and will still be terrible. But what are the alternatives:
1. Put it downtown - already more than a dozen apartments proposed or being built.
2. 143 duplexes in green hills - two duplexes on every street in G. H.
3. 71 quadplexes in green hills - one per street in green hills
4. have your adult kids live with you forever
5. you can move out past franklin and commute 2 hours a day.
What are the advantages:
1. there will be more mid rise buildings built in G. H. and maybe we will finally make progress on future mass transit to green hills
2. If you live in one of these new mid rises you may walk across the street to shop and finally lose those 10 pound
3. your kids won't have to move in with you.