Achilles
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Posts posted by Achilles
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Beat me to it. I'm not sure if this is a good thing (if people never knew before, everyone will finally see how bad Waterside has become and actually do something to solve the problem, rather than escalate it) or a truly bad thing. I really don't think Waterside should be bulldozed for something else because that would be a serious waste of time and money, IMHO.
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After 9/11, didn't the original Town Center drop plans for a twin tower to the Armada Hoffler building? And yet a few years later, we got the Westin hotel. I would rather have Westin than an ugly twin AH building, so things are not necessarily bad!
I think so. I'll admit, until this past year, I never really followed construction projects around here as closely as I do now. Speaking of 9/11, the One World Trade Center (formerly known as the Freedom Tower) is having its own problems lifting off. It was originally scheduled to be topped off sometime next year or in 2011, but now, it has been significantly pushed back to 2013. And there are even rumors that it may not be fully completed until 2018 (Source: the New York Daily News). This is New York we're talking about here; the skyscraper capital of the world, IMO. If they can't get something built on time, then I don't think we should be worrying too much about everything. But, yeah, I don't believe things are as bad as they seem.
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We've had Granby Tower fail, Westin stall, Town Center stall, Ghent Station stall, and I reallly am starting to think that CityView does not have financing. I mean, how could it? If Armada Hoffler can't finance a 15 floor apartment/hotel tower in Town Center.. how the heck could CityView finance 2-15 floor towers, a 7 floor tower, a parking deck, etc.
Granby Tower failed cause the stupid court delayed it in 2004 (or 2005?) and, basically, killed it with the economy falling apart in 2008 and eminent domain. This is happening across the country, even in places a renowned as Las Vegas and San Diego. I'm no economist or urban planner, but I'm fairly certain that, if they don't have the financing, the developers will likely ride out the economic turmoil and then start building once things start looking better.
Also, I think we should keep politics out of this thread. We don't need people clawing each others eyes out over something not directly related to urban planning (actually, politics are very much involved in urban planning, but Obama and Palin are not).
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I can't take any more bad news. I'm takng a break from UrbanPlanet for a while..
http://hamptonroads....own-center-plan
Varider, you have to understand this all has to do with the economy. Nobody's building anything right now, but they will later on when the economy picks up. Just because Town Center has stalled doesn't mean they're not going to finish it. In the next couple years, things ought to be looking up (I hope).
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I agree, I think the Redskins are the biggest reason why football won't come here anytime soon as long as the Redskins are in D.C!!! The owner of the Redskins and probably Ravens and Panthers wouldn't approve of a move or expansion team in Richmond nor Norfolk's Metro. To much competiton for fans. Most already consider us Redskin land. recently the Carolina Panthers have some fans here as well but, it's more of a Redskin town here. The Steelers have alot of fans because they go back years and years ago and thats the case coast to coast for Steeler fans(Redskin fans as well) and In My Opinion the Redskins have a strangle hold here hence the event they do on the Va Beach oceanfront now annually! Basketball may work being the Wizards havent got a strong hold here as of now. Will the owners approve a move here or expansion franchise? Maybe, fact is were in a area were pro sports may not come ever because of the distance of the teams that surround us and a lack of the things needed to justify a pro team(stadium/18,000/20,000 seat arena minimum sizes being some are 25,000-30,000 in size now) and I say that with all due respect!!
Question? How would the area react to a losing team if it lost after the 1st 2-3 years. Would support drop like Jacksonville's did.
Jacksonville worked hard to get that team, and it would be a bit sad to see them lose it to another, bigger and more prominent metro. But, in response to your question, take a look at the Washington Nationals. They've been around since 2005 and are absolutely horrendous. If you ever watch any of their home games, you will notice that very, very few of their fans are present. If a team like the Phillies, the Reds, or the Mets come to play, Nats fans are almost always outnumbered by fans of the other team in their own home stadium. For their sake, though, they are lucky because they recently completed Nationals Park, which ought to give Washington a good grip on the team (regardless of how bad they are) for another 5-10 years.
Personally, I think, if Hampton Roads ever got a team and it did poorly, support probably would drop. But any team that is an expansion or relocates somewhere else is usually guaranteed ten years in their designated metro before the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc. decides to move the team elsewhere. So we would have to spend those ten years building a good team and creating a strong, dedicated fan base.
The redskins quit doing the beach blitz after vabeach turned the redskins request down to upgrade the sportsplex to NFL standards for training camp...which was stupid move for vabeach
WHAT?! Are you serious? If I'm not mistaken, they just had the Beach Blitz again this year, and VA Beach turned down a chance for a training camp? What could possibly be the reasoning for that, other than an attempt to keep our market clear of other teams' presence in case we get chance to have a team of our own some day?
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Yeah, I think carolinaboy is right. It's a possibility. But there are way too many die-hard Redskins, Steelers, Ravens, and Panthers fans around here. And without any large stadiums to accommodate an NFL team it will be a lot harder. It could happen, though. L.A. has proven time and time again it cannot support an NFL team. Honestly, I think L.A. needs the Rams back, but there are rumors that team will be relocated to London in the future, so idk about that. Who knows? Anything could happen.
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Heck, I'm from Newport News, and even I support the Southside option. Norfolk is the urban core and desperately needs a passenger rail line of its own. It's only about a 45-55 minute drive to Richmond from the Peninsula, and if I-64 West is ever widened, that time will be cut even shorter. High-speed rail for Norfolk would be the best. In all my life on the Peninsula, I have not once used the Amtrak line, but I am glad they will most likely be upgrading it anyways. If I lived in the Southside, though, I'd probably think twice about battling the HRBT/MMMBT traffic (and the insane traffic in D.C.) and ride a high-speed train to D.C., instead. Besides, I can see the high-speed line to Norfolk as a benefit to all of Hampton Roads (the Peninsula included) in the future.
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I really hope they can attain National Park status: Development Authority director looks to the private sector but rules out widespread building at Fort Monroe. I like how this is all coming together, especially since they want to keep Fort Monroe active/alive 24/7 with tourists and residents. I wouldn't consider this true urban development, but it certainly will boost tourism in our region with proper advertising and such. Heck, it may even help revitalize Buckroe, which would be awesome.
Edit: Sorry! I just realized this is a locked topic. I don't want to cause any trouble.
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Actually, MacArthur on Ice is already up and running . It was packed with ice skaters when I saw it a weekend or two ago.
Yeah, you're right; it opened November 21st. It's good to hear that's still receiving the support.
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I don't think it's the economy as much as it is people just not caring enough about it. This easily could have happened in 2006 or 2007. Norfolk will already be having its own temporary ice-rink, anyways, with sponsorship from HRT and Nauticus, among others: MacArthur on Ice. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Edit: I'm still trying to figure out how to properly post links here.
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If any of you guys are looking for our transportation funding.... go to NoVA! Riding up I-95, I've never seen more road/rail construction in one region. Seemingly every mile there was a new project being constructed. Massive flyovers, elevated metroRail, tunnels, etc.
And I am working on an idea for commuter/light rail in HR after witnessing firsthand the benefits of rail transit up in Phila.
Very true. I read an article in the Pilot that said over the past decade NoVA has received a little over 50% of VA's transportation funding!!! I mean, I can understand them having a significant piece of funding since they're in the metro of our nation's capital and really do need the funds to alleviate some of those D.C. bumper-to-bumper nightmares along I-95, but 50% is ridiculous since NoVA already has such services as the Washington Metro rapid transit and the Virginia Railway Express commuter rail, and the largest cities in VA are in Hampton Roads and are still working on building just a single light rail line, which, hopefully, will extend to the largest city in VA.
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Not many people have heard of the term Hampton Roads. Say Virginia Beach or Norfolk and everyone knows it.
If it were up to me I'd just call it Virginia Beach-Norfolk. Like Minneapolis-St. Paul, Tampa- St. Pete, etc.
When someone asks me where i'm from Ijust say Virginia Beach and they almost always say "Oh it's so nice there, I'd love livign there"
I'm gonna have to agree. It would be nice to have a Peninsula city in there as well, though. Like VA Beach-Norfolk-Newport News or Norfolk-VA Beach-Newport News. But I think that's asking for too much. If it benefits the region more, I'd be fine with VA Beach-Norfolk or Norfolk-VA Beach.
Although, I must say, I don't mind the name Hampton Roads. I used to hate it and think it was ugly, but it's grown on me now. It has a lot of history to it, actually.
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Don't be silly. There will not be an ABA team joining the NBA. In the 1970s it was a merger of two leagues much like the AFL and NFL.
A successful ABA franchise may be a deciding factor in NBA expansion or movement.
Yeah, I know that. This ABA is nowhere near the status of the old ABA. Plus, the NBA has been established in the public mind for so long that it is the only league people will support for pro basketball in the U.S. I read into this new ABA some more and came to realize that. The old ABA, at least, had a better chance back in the 70s like the 1959 AFL did in the 60s.
As much as I want this franchise to be successful and getting the NBA to expand here, I cannot. All I can say is that something is better than nothing. I believe we discussed that the Scope needs to be used more in this thread, so I think this will help.
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I was really excited about this at first...until I looked at the teams. The good news is, a majority of those teams are located in big cities that also have NBA teams, and thus, we will be able to see teams from those cities come to Norfolk and play. If we're lucky and give this team a lot of support and maybe someday a new, pro-sized arena, we might be able to convince the NBA to make our ABA team an NBA team like the Spurs and the Nets were in the late 70s.
Though looking at the amount of teams in the ABA, it definitely looks like a minor league...though a league I havent heard about before, so is this a new league?According to Wikipedia, the new ABA's been around since 2000, but I've noticed a lot of their teams are in big cities. If the ABA can convince the NBA that the ABA's enough of a threat, then we might be able to get Norfolk's team into the NBA.
I've heard of the old Virginia Squires, but I think this is a different, newer version of that ABA and not nearly as prestigous(sp.?)After looking at how many teams there are, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal anymore. I'd rather have a D-League team. But I'll support whatever comes through the 757.
Considering the Pilot and the Daily Press didn't cover it yet, I don't think it is. I think this will be better than a D-League team, though. You never know; it might grow up someday.
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That is the Sentara Princess Anne Hospital Complex. It is somewhere else on the VB forum. Maybe under the VB development forum.?
Oh, I see; cool. Thanks for clearing that up for me. And, yeah, I would assume it would be in the VB construction forum. There's just so much stuff to read through here I end up missing a lot of things.
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Its just a sign of the times at this moment. Norfolk, nor any other city can't do much without financing. Most cities are just finishing off old buildings that were already under construction pre 2007 to very early 2008. Look at Chicago and you'll see a city that has lost tons of money and realestate to the market collapse.
You said it. We're certainly not the only ones with stalled/canceled buildings. Although, ironically, you'd expect more buildings to be built right now because construction is so CHEAP. I know someone who's an electrical contractor, and he tells me he's losing a lot of jobs to other companies who are WAY underbidding him and his company and that, if he bids any lower, he won't make any sort of profit at all and will, basically, be wasting time and money. It's nothing but good news for the customers, though. You get custom, quality construction, etc. (well, hopefully) for a rock-bottom price. I'm guessing other factors--like attracting tenants--are in play here, though. Can't afford to build something and pay property taxes on it, etc. without having any tenants to provide you with any income for such a building.
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Quick question that I should have asked a while ago: When I was in Virginia Beach a couple weeks ago to see blink-182 at the VA Beach Amphitheater, I noticed some construction next to Damn Neck Road (between the Amphitheater and Princess Anne Road). I don't know if it's just housing or something, but on Google maps, it looks like it's near the Sportsplex. I'm not entirely sure if someone's already posted something about this. If so (or if it's just nothing), sorry!
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Hi to everyone, I have been reading posts on this blog for years and have never posted, but I just wanted to chime in on this one.
I can understand your arguments in regards to the investment risks involved in placement of a pro sports team, however, when was the last time that anyone sold any tickets of any price for a major league team which was located in Hampton Roads?
I believe it was during the period when the Norfolk Baseball Company was attempting to lure the Expos. Which we could have won if there hadn't been an overwhelming political tide to take the team to DC (which I believe was already
decided before the relocation was announced, however, this is for another topic).
Oduengineer, to test your hypothesis in regards to why the teams here do not charge the prices major league teams in other locales charge, do a comparison; check to see if the Charlotte Knights charge what the Panthers or Bobcats charge. That is a team that co-exists with two major league teams. Also, check to see if the Gwinnett Braves charge what the Atlanta Braves, Falcons, or Hawks charge. Again, even in this case, the major and minor league teams both co-exist with one another for the same sport in the same market.
Really, what it boils down to is that no one individual, group of individuals, or government has truly wanted to make the capital investment required to lure a major league franchise to Hampton Roads. Period. It's not to the say the money is not here or in the region to support the team. You would be surprised at the amount of money in South Hampton Roads alone. Take for example that Phish concert several months ago at the Hampton Coliseum. People were paying upwards to $2,000 for individual tickets from scalpers for a single evening concert. Now, I wouldn't pay that much for any concert, however, my point is that people will pay for what they want or demand. If you talk about corporate sponsorships, it's simple. If the newly created team is marketed as a 'Virginia' team which it should be, then go other parts of the state such as Richmond or Northern Virginia to get those sponsorships. At least Richmond if not Northern Virginia. Richmond alone has enough corporate power to bring in those sponsorships. Now would be a good time since the 'Skins are doing so bad to lure those Northern Virginia sponsorships away. Might actually make them play better, but that's another topic as well.
Also note that if locals did not have such a lackadaisical attitude in regards to such, the locals would insists a on a local club. For example, if a major population boom occurred here due to people relocating where teams were established, then a club would form here, either through relocation or expansion. Raleigh is a good example of this. If they hadn't had a major population boom, they wouldn't have an NHL team. For that fact, no one would have ever heard of Raleigh except for being the state capital (Not to put Raleigh down or anything).
I believe the real issue is that the "powers at be" locally do not want a major league team because their control would be lost to outside forces. However, this is just my opinion.
I think that you missed my point, maybe my bad. I am simply saying that someone in power (major political figure AND financial backers) has to believe that we (ppl in Hampton Roads) will pay that kind of $ for a team. It hasn't happened. Why do you think? Not exactly sure, but big league sports IS A GAMBLE, AN INVESTMENT - a gamble that no one is willing to take in HR. In markets where teams suck, the gamble is often a big loss.I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, its just that ppl in power don't believe in us. Maybe if we sold out Scope at the Admirals/Tampa game, or Harbor Park regularly, or had corporate sponsors throwing $ around, or whatever. But it hasn't happened. That should be the call to action to we little folks. Make what we have sparkle (sell out stuff) and maybe something will happen.
I agree with hollise the most because he sums up my argument for pro sports in Hampton Roads (and why we lack them), but I also believe oduengineer has some valid points. Getting local people to invest in a team/stadium will be difficult, but if they were willing take a risk for the Expos, they'll probably be willing to take a risk for other teams.
We sold out Harbor Park when the Orioles played the Nationals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!When the Admirals were good Scope would sell out, they lose too much nowadays. But I do agree with you that selling out what we do have would send a strong message to the powers to be.
Harbor Park averages about 7000.. Seats 12,000. Sell that baby out day after day and I think the MLB would take a strong look at Norfolk again.
Of course, they would, kiddo. What's more is that, this past season, the O's and the Nats (even though they're my teams unless Hampton Roads gets a team of its own) were the worst teams in their leagues. The Nats had back-to-back 100 game losing seasons, and the O's were about 32 games behind the Red Sox for the Wild Card race at the end of the season, I believe. I'm not sure if the Lighting/Admirals game sold out either, but that would definitely be something to look into. I also am pretty sure the Grizzlies/Wizards game in Richmond sold out. If you see where I'm going with this, you'll understand that we've been selling out (yeah, I know Richmond's not a part of Hampton Roads, but we still have a lot of things in common with them, and Richmond is kind of like a brother/sister to us in some ways) for some of the worst teams in their leagues (the Tampa Bay Lighting is rather pitiful and so are the Grizzlies and Wizards). Could you imagine how well we could do with actual major league teams that actually play well?
Another thing I'd like to add is that, even if not everyone in Hampton Roads wants to see a lot of games (or any games) for any pro teams we can get here, you have to remember that not everyone who sees such games are locals. During the summer, when tourism is at its peak here, we could get tourists to come see MLB games (or MLS) and, during the fall/winter/spring, if we have NFL, NBA or NHL teams, we could attract more tourists than ever before in our region's "off-season." Heck, I went and saw a Rays game when my friends and I drove down to the Tampa Bay area this past summer.
Speaking of which, you might want to look into the history of the Rays, since they built Tropicana Field a few years before they even knew they were going to have an MLB team for it. Seriously, look into the history of Tropicana Field, and you'll see what I mean; it's a lot like what we're talking about now. I just wish some of the local "rich-and-powerful," Hampton Roads politicians/officials, etc. around here were reading the comments on this site. Guess we'll just have to take the comments to them.
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I was being sarcastic, but I didn't misunderstand varider. I don't see how it can be OK to develop a stadium with public money, but not retail/housing in underutilized areas. Both uses of the money have to be justified. And neither plan could be fulfilled without public money. I think you'd have your work cut out for you arguing that public housing in SPQ could be b'dozed and replaced with a stadium using public funds.
However, I'm pretty much not on board with this whole pro sports thing anyways... I think I made that clear in an earlier post. If it could be done painlessly through some kinda voodoo, then I say, "what the hell, do it!" But otherwise it's just not worth the hassle and the money IMO.
Alright, I gotcha. And, yeah, I agree that there must be some justification before any city money is used to build anything.
I agree that we all want great things for the area . . . we live here. This isn't a big money metro, though. We are a Lousiville, a Salt Lake City, an Albany/Schnectady/Troy, a Mobile, a Birmingham, an Austin. I know a few of these places well and just because they don't have a major league team they aren't cruddy places to live.I am such a geek that I check up on construction projects in Norfolk on a weekly basis. Hey, I lurk here a lot (just started posting). I love what is happening here and believe that we need to continue to build upon what we have. Most places would die to have what we have: beaches, historic areas, the world's largest naval base, steady employment, we all know this. We just need to be real careful before we wreck the local budget by supporting millionaire athletes.
Actually, Salt Lake City has two pro teams: the Utah Jazz (NBA) and Real Salt Lake (MLS). And, if no one knows this, Virginia and Louisville used to have pro basketball teams in the ABA, which later merged with the NBA when the ABA folded. VA had the VA Squires which played in the Norfolk Scope, the Hampton Coliseum, and the Richmond Coliseum. Louisville had the Kentucky Colonels. We lost the Squires mainly because their manager was bad and decided to trade away fan favorites George Gervin and
Julius Erving to fellow ABA teams (and current NBA teams) the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Nets respectively. Had that not happened, fans would not have abandoned the Squires and we would probably have still had them.
Actually Austin is larger and more organized of a city that Hampton Roads, plus there is Providence, RI which is also roughly the same size as Hampton Roads. Omaha is another great example of a big city without any pro teams...and Salt Lake has been a big mover lately with city growth, it is much more of an impressive city than you are currently giving it credit for. Also if we really want to get technical, there is also Las Vegas that doesnt have a pro team, but their gambling has been the biggest road block for them.I know you want a team as bad as the next guy, but teams dont make or break a city...outside of sports, pro teams mean very little to most cities....go up to any non sports fan and ask them who their favorite team is and they wont care.
If Hampton Roads wants a team bad enough, then there needs to be push to get together enough of the wealthy people there to create an LLC company that is designed to go after a team and own them.
But in the current situation with the economy, I dont see any teams wishing to move that could effect their market, and there are not many teams looking to move right now besides the ones that are shuffling around in the Bay Area. (which I say that, not knowing anything about hockey or what their teams are feeling like.)
Another thing, I think the best shot Norfolk has at getting a pro team is going to be with the NBA because cities that the NBA is in with the NFL and MLB means they are third market teams and they would much rather be first or second market teams and to do that, they need to locate in cities that do not have a pro team....then if you throw in the really big cities that have more than one team in each sport, then it is even more so....take the Clippers, who watches the Clippers?? There are a ton of better teams then them in a saturated market....those are the teams that should be courted by the city and investors.
You're right about Austin; even in the recession, it is one of the fastest growing cities in the nation ans is already the 15th largest city in the United States. However, they're only about an hour away from San Antonio, which already has an NBA team (the Spurs). And, if Austin did get anything better than an NBA, NHL, or MLS team, it would be rather unfair since Texas already has two MLB and NFL teams both about 3-3 1/2 hours away (and, yeah, I know California has like 3 NFL and 5 MLB teams, but that's because California practically takes up the entire West Coast). The Mariners are the only other West Coast team.
Providence and Vegas, though, are different. Providence may be the size of Hampton Roads, but they're a mere hour away from Boston and 3 hours from NYC. The nearest pro teams to Hampton Roads are in the Baltimore/Washington metro (3 hours) and Charlotte (6 hours). We have a decided advantage on that. Vegas doesn't need pro sports because sports other than poker really aren't a part of their culture (and gambling is an issue, like you said); although, that doesn't mean Las Vegas residents would refuse to support any teams that relocated/expand there. But Vegas has and always will be a part of pop culture and does not need teams to promote itself. Most people go to Vegas for one reason and one reason alone.
And, oddly enough, the Clippers get quite a few fans, mainly because they play in the same arena as the Lakers. If you look at the attendance of each of the various stadiums/arenas for each of the various pro sports on ESPN.com, you'll be pretty surprised by some of the figures you see. But, yeah, we need a group like I've been saying to court these pro sports leagues and attempt to bring teams here. If we keep trying, we're bound to get something.
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Referring to ronsmytheii's comment about the $ would be better spent on developing SPQ or Fort Norfolk than on an arena/stadium
I think y'all (varider and cpeaksqr) both misunderstood each other. I'm pretty sure cpeaksqr was being sarcastic and was trying to point out that an MLB stadium would not be funded by private investment, but I think varider meant that housing and retail in Norfolk and SPQ should be paid for by private investment rather than a pro sports stadium. I could be wrong, though.
Also, varider, in response to your comment about me losing my "optimism," I have not lost it, and as I said, I certainly am not going to stop trying to bring pro teams here. I was just saying my idea about building a stadium/arena without having a pro team to call it home was probably a bit too optimistic and unreal. The commenters (including you) here seem to be more knowledgeable on urban planning (obviously) and the like than me, so I trust they would know whether my idea would have any merit to it.
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ummm, you are aware that the Salt Lake City Bees, which is a AAA team, has a light rail stop about a block from the stadium.
No, I was not, as a matter of fact, but I am now.
I can honestly say Norfolk isn't thinking of that. I would hope that the scope is paid off by now, they do not hold any events on the big floor there but the circus and admiral games. It is really hard to say anything else that they use it for. With that being said, how can they drum up a base or get a good gauge if they do not engage the people into sports at all. They can do this buy hosting a range of smaller events like MMA fights, basketball games, arena football (yes again), anything scope can hold. Then you can see what kinds of responses you will receive. I have to believe that it cost more to maintain it and do nothing with it, then renting it for a substantial price that people could afford. I assume that people do not rent the scope now because of size (which you can not do anything about) and cost......I would be relucant to build anything big if I do not know the interest level is or think my people could afford the cost to attend a game.Yeah, you're right. I figured it was too good to be true. And, yeah, paying off all the money spent for such a big stadium that might go to waste would take forever...and ever. I'm too optimistic about bringing pro sports here, I guess. Norfolk really does need to use the Scope more often for sporting events, though.
Having arena football again is out of the question, though, since the AFL folded this year. However, we may have hopes of bringing yet another minor league team here with the formation of the UFL. The UFL has said they are looking to expand into metros without major league teams like Des Moines and Omaha. The UFL says it's supposed to "rival" the NFL, but I seriously doubt that. If anything, it will be a minor league affiliate of the NFL. It'd be pretty sweet if the UFL did give us a team, and the NFL decided to make it a part of the NFL like it did with the teams in the 1959 AFL. But I seriously doubt that as well.
We are, essentially, unable to bring pro sports here because we're stuck with all these venues and stadiums that are critical to our major sports teams like the Tides and the Admirals but are unable to hold enough people for any pro sports. Tearing down any of these venues would be a horrible idea and a big waste of big bucks but keeping them around without using them for much isn't helping either. It's our metro's Catch-22. It certainly won't keep me from trying to bring pro teams here, though.
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What is so interesting about your statement regarding parsing out the revenue is that we have competion regarding acquring a team, but cities like VA, Chesapeake and portsmouth fight big city living!!!! What sense does that make exactly? Lets see, you do not want LRT because blah blah blah, but you want a professional sports team setting in suburia.
Lol. Yeah, definitely. I don't understand that at all. Not every Hampton Roads city or county needs to be urban like Norfolk or VA Beach (because, personally, I don't believe all of Hampton Roads needs to be), but if they're not going to be urban, they should understand that the most populous and urban cities in the metro deserve the teams the most because the big cities have the $$$ and population to sustain them (unless it's football, where the stadium is best located outside the more urban parts of the metro; for an NFL team in Hampton Roads, Williamsburg, James City County, Isle of Wight, Smithfield, Chesapeake, and Suffolk come to mind).
I did a little reading on the group Touchdown! Jacksonville.Without the formation, Jacksonville probably would not have an NFL team. Something similar to that really needs to be formed.. The mayors of the seven cities, local developers, businesses, CEOs, etc. need to be active members. It can be done.. Anything is possible, right?Agreed. Touchdown! Jacksonville didn't get a team right away, but with strong will and the help of some of the political types, it sure did eventually. My hopes are to do the same. By far, MLB would be my favorite sports team to acquire since it would be rather difficult to peel away the Redskins' expansive fan base despite how bad they are. But who knows? I'll be happy to take anything higher than minor league teams.
actually you are wrong, Norfolk has a couple spots that they want to build a arena at in the SPQuad.they had to put it off to put the money aside for the new courthouse dt
Really? By SPQuad, you mean Saint Paul's Quadrant, right? I hope they continue to pursue this plan once they have the funds for it again. If it's a baseball or football stadium, it should have 40,000 seats or more (By comparison Dick Price Stadium holds up to 30,000 people, Foreman Field holds a little less than 20,000 people, and Harbor Park barely holds 12,000 people). If it's a basketball or hockey arena, it should have 18-20,000 seats. (By comparison, the Hampton Coliseum and the Norfolk Scope hold little over 8,000 people for basketball and hockey games). We cannot expect any teams to relocate here until we have stadiums/arenas large enough to accommodate them.
Also, I hope VA Beach builds that stadium I saw in the plans they have for Pembroke. It looked pretty high-end compared to the stadiums we have around here. Hopefully, no one intervenes and strikes it down.
What I find funniest of all out of all of this is that we're probably gonna be the only metro in the nation with a light rail line stopping at a minor league stadium. Lol. But maybe The Tide will help change that.
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Well there would be no reason for a F100 bank to relocate here, unless the CEO happened to be a local. But other comapnies I can see.. What do fortune 500 companies like(other than being near other F500 companies)? They like having a big transportation infrastructure so their products and employees can get in and out of their own metro, they like having a vibrant downtown so their CEO's, Presidents,Board, etc. can hodgepodge throughout the city. They like pro sports teams to sponser and support. We really don't have any three of those. We are working on #1 with LR, vibrant downtown? Sort of, but not when you compare it to the cities with 20 F500 companies. Pro teams? Well you know the answer to that..
Virginia Beach growth has slowed.. It will be over 500,000 by 2025 if it keeps growing at it's current rate (source: Comprehensive Plan). We need "big money" jobs.. We will probably see a big jump in population when Craney Island gets started (and its 50,000 jobs), the alternative energy industry has potential (but that's not certain), we need those F500 jobs for the young people to fill our "world class downtown," aka Pembroke.
Oh, no, of course not. But other types of companies (as you said) certainly would. A strong source of white-collar jobs is what this area needs to complement our rich blue-collar base (military, fisheries, tourism, etc.). Although, I have to admit, I am very frightened about the things I've been reading in some recent articles in the Virginia Pilot and the Daily Press. There's talk that one of carriers may be relocated to Mayport, FL sometime in the future, if the U.S. gov't decides to send one there. Measures are already being taken to improve Mayport's naval port to accommodate a carrier. Idk if it's just sensationalist journalism or not, but it sure has me jittery. If we lose just one carrier, we'd be losing 5,000 jobs and some $90 million (if I remember the DP article right). If FL gets one of our carriers, it could spell disaster for us, and we certainly don't need any of that to improve our metro.
And, yeah, VB growth has slowed, but if we can give more people an incentive to move here, we can, hopefully, improve that. The recession's had a huge effect on everything, and I think, once we're out of this, we'll have a much easier time attracting businesses here. I don't really think we need 20 F500 companies (and I seriously doubt we'll ever have that many during this century), but we definitely need more than just Norfolk Southern, Dollar Tree, and Smithfield Foods. Our economy is too reliant on defense spending, and our population growth is too reliant on nationwide transplants from the military; it is far too unstable, even though these factors are keeping our economy afloat right now. I know I'm basically repeating what I said in the first paragraph, but that's how important I think this is. I'd like to keep all of our military bases and jobs, but I'd also like to see more job growth in the private sector. But, of course, most cities and metros would like that also...
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Why is that? Explain position!!
Well, personally, I would love to have pro sports teams here. I was just trying to find some kind of middle ground between the posters here who are really passionate about having a team here, the posters who kind of want a team here, and the ones who think pro sports teams are overrated, and we just need ODU. I'm actually trying to form some kind of group sometime in the near future that would be dedicated to bringing pro sports to Hampton Roads in hopes that it may, someday, succeed. After all, forming a group dedicated to acquiring an NFL team played a major role in how Jacksonville got the Jaguars. By forming a group called Touchdown! Jacksonville and showing they were very dedicated to getting an NFL team, Jacksonville prevailed against all odds and beat out Baltimore and St. Louis, among others, to acquire the Jaguars.
My opinion on having a pro sports teams is stated in the post you quoted. To add to that post, though, if we get a team, I believe the best course of action would be to name them the "Virginia ______" (like many people have said before) and have an agreement between all of the Hampton Roads cities and counties (or, at least, the seven cities) that any money collected to support the team(s) would be taken from all of them rather than just the city that contains the team(s) home stadium (although, I believe the city that has the stadium should probably pay slightly more money than the others, but idk about that). I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone, but I'm just trying to form a good plan so that, in case we get a chance to acquire a team, arguments between the cities and counties doesn't make the deal fall through.
Also, I think we were very close to having the Expos. However, Norfolk's plan to house them temporarily in an expanded Harbor Park was inadequate. D.C. (being the nation's capital and a very large, well-known city) has a lot of pull and was easily able to get the Expos. Plus, D.C. already had RFK Stadium for the Expos, which was a ready-made pro sports stadium. If Norfolk had a nice stadium that could house up to 40,000-50,000 people, I think they would have had a better chance at getting the Expos. Crazy as it may seem, I think we should just go ahead and build a nice, high-capacity stadium or arena somewhere in a convienient location in Hampton Roads in hopes of attracting a pro team. It would provide a ready-made home for a new team (most likely a relocated one since expansion of most pro sports leagues is pretty much out of the question right now), so the team could continue playing in the next season, and it would show our dedication to acquiring a pro team.
The obvious problem with building a stadium/arena without even having a team yet is the inevitable public outcry and the idea that such a stadium/arena would be a complete waste of taxpayer money, especially if it fails to attract any teams at all within 3-5 years. But it worked for Tampa Bay when they built Tropicana Field and attracted the Devil Rays (or Rays as they're now called). And it worked for Oklahoma City, who built the Ford Center and recently attracted the Oklahoma City Thunder (partially due to Hurricane Katrina forcing the Hornets to play there for a couple seasons, though). My thoughts on this could be very flawed, though. I hope no one thinks I'm dumb for proposing such a radical idea.
Waterside District
in Norfolk
Posted
Perhaps it will. The article mentions something about Jillian's departure giving Norfolk quote "latitude in a new plan for Waterside." Although, Waterside has been many things before, so idk how well that's going to work out. I wonder if the city is intentionally driving these tenants out to start with a clean-slate for Waterside. Hopefully, they have some kind of plan for it that's not lame.