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Its bullcrap that a group that could not even vote for this set thier eyes on this millage. It reminds me a lot of the Wyoming Fire and Police Millage were 3 of the 5 main contribiturs to its defeat were not even residents.

True it was showing what can be supportive by a BRT but that plan is what the cities of Wyoming and Kentwood are working towards. I should also mention that Gaines Township was there and did place some input into it. I am thinking Gaines is looking at taking over the area west of Division to 131 if they were to incoperate as City of Dutton/Cuttlerville.

Uhm the Fishers Station (54th and 60th on Division) has had a design Charatte. The current head of the ITP, Jay Hoekstra was part of the charette. As a result the first thing that was stated was a need for a park and ride at 54th and Division. Since there is a bunch of land a small strip mall with an empty parking lot, there is plenty of space for a park and ride at present. As for building a parking structure I doubt there will ever be a need for one in the current design. If the cities of Wyoming and Kentwood decide that there is a need for taller buildings I can see a parking structures inside the buildings that were laid out.

The issue is we have a strong libertian group in West Michigan. This group is trying to stop all government spending. The problem with this idea is that some government spending is required and should be done. Since it is the federal governments job to handle Interstate Commerce it is them who has to set standards and provide the money to enact those standards. I am one who will say I am more libertian than conservative but thats because I feel some government programs are worthless and would be better handled by the states. In fact I think most federal level programs should be given to the states. Needless to say this group feels that a lot funding for NASA should be banned among other items. It would cause more harm than good in the long term IMHO if they had their way. I think providing funding for projects that make sense is ideal but providing funding for projects like the Bridge to nowhere is stupid. I remember when a libertian group was fighting M6. Given the facts I provided earlier if we did not have M6 I think the local roads would be in even worse shape than they already are. They are currently fighting the federal funding for US 31 project tooth and nail on their site. Given the limited access US 31 will have on the townships I find it hard to fathom why they oppose it. Giving Muskegon and Grand Haven better access to the entire interstate highway system provides better means for companies to locate in those areas. As for how a person who does live in one of 6 cities wants to fight this project is comical. I would rather see him fight the state on not providing the revenue sharing they are supposed to for the cities. By not providing said revenue it is causing these cities to have to either cut services or raise property taxes. In cases of Income tax collection all that can be done is going down to just 600 dollars for exemptions. That alone is a way for some cities to go but that hits the poor especially hard since it would double if not triple their tax burden.

Say I wonder what the cost would be for the 28th Street BRT line versus a Light Rail connecting Holland to Muskegon to Grand Rapids to Holland ie a big Light Rail Triangle. Oh GRdad you should have provided the link to the report, like THIS. It was a good read, took me all of 8 minutes to read and trust me it makes sense but I still think we need to start with this BRT first. The only other issue we have is that the state does not allow communites to levy a sales tax. Which sucks in the regard of the light rail proposal. I do think that we better off with a property tax in the long term since it would not move up and down with the economy.

I think it would be a great place for the next BRT line. Granted the line I think it needs would be rather expensive but I think if the Silver Line is successful it would work. Linking the Airport to the Silver Line and Metro also with the Silver Line are two big items on that line along with the two largest Malls in the Grand Rapids Area. Those 4 items should help in getting funding. I do think that because of the amount of Commerical Truck Traffic it would required to have seperate lanes for the BRT line and not like Division. Plus the aspect that it would be needed to run every 10 minutes during the 7 to 7 hours IMHO with the early and late hours being every 20 minutes or so. There is a lot dead areas along 28th that could support this with new development plus the aspect that there is a lot of good areas that need support. The only sections I am considered about with this is Wilson corridor between GV Middle School and 44th st, the Patterson Section from 44th to 28th St, and some parts of the path from Rivertown Crossings to Metro. I do not think multiple stations would be required in those stretches with one being sufficant. Needless to say some parts could easily be served with no major road work needed but the 28th stretch would be required to have massive road work done in the aspect of adding two lanes for the busses in the center of the street. I do not think a street car system would work when you may need to change the path at times depending on what comes and what moves.

Actually I think our highway system in Grand Rapids metro area is fairly well setup. I think the US 31 in Ottawa County is all that is required. After that there is no more need for Freeways in Grand Rapids in a long time. The rest of our money should be spent on upkeep and expansion of public transit. The use of 3 lanes in the center of the city ie 131 and 196 is good, the use of 2 lanes on the outside 96, 31, and M6 is perfect. M11 needs to converted and removed from the state IMHO.

Uhm M6 did have a net benifit that nobody saw. In the course of the several years that we have this freeway here is the commerical truck traffic counts that the state has tallied. I-96 in 99 had 6000 to 4000 trucks per day I-196 in 99 had about 5000 trucks per day M-11 in 99 had about 2000 trucks per day In 2007 the highways had these truck numbers I-96 had 5000 to 3000 trucks per day I-196 had 3000 to 5000 trucks per day M-11 had around 1500 trucks per day M-6 had around 5000 trucks per day To get you an idea we had 5000 trucks come or go from Lansing on 96 to 2700 come or go from Muskegon, and 4800 to Holland. When you break it down, when those lines cross 131 we get an interesting picture, 5400 on M-6, 2000 on M-11, 4500 on I-196, and 3000 on I-96. M6 is taking a huge burden off the other interstates in the aspect of commerical truck traffic. Thats why we have a need for freeways. Its not to move people around but rather products we buy and sell. Also of note is US 131. In 1999 by M-6 over 7300 trucks were on 131 per day and 4400 leaving Grand Rapids to Cadiliac in the Comstock Park Region. Bring it foward to 2007 we are looking at 5700 trucks on 131 coming into Grand Rapids south of M6 and only 4200 trucks going north by Comstock Park. Although that appears that M6 is peeling off traffic north of M6 is still the same number of trucks so I feel that M6 is taking traffic off the local roads more than anything else. That provides us more money locally wise for road repairs. Most traffic engineers consider one truck does the same amount of road damage as 1000 cars.

I know there is apartments on 28th street on the east side and trust me there is apartments on the west side. On top of that there is a ton of houses right behind 28th street in wyoming and kentwood areas along with the entire north side strip.

So now you just 3 dollars for a parking spot for one day. The millage is 1 dollar for a month and I think 1.50 or 2 dollars for the bus ticket. So consider the possibility of saving a few minutes if that for the cost of the BRT I think this proves it for me that the BRT is worth it. I know it is not cheap to park downtown, been there done that for two jury duties and had that paid for. I still look at the traffic on 131 and how it has not decreased and yet we are in a recession in the state. I think the biggest issue we face in the state is how we fund for items. I think we need to get rid of the state income and sales tax. I believe a statewide property tax would be the easiest and safest way to fund everything. But frankly we need to do something to drive investment in our cities. This is the first step in many steps in helping our cities. Say do you think 28th street could be widened enough to do what Cleveland did with their Health Line BRT in having two dedicated lanes in the center with a small median on each side to seperate it from the car traffic. I guess it would look like this, building{sodEmoji.|}_sidewalk_{sodEmoji.|}_grass_{sodEmoji.|}_2 traffic lanes_{sodEmoji.|}_grass_{sodEmoji.|}_2 BRT Lanes_{sodEmoji.|}_grass_{sodEmoji.|}_2 traffic lanes_{sodEmoji.|}_grass_{sodEmoji.|}_sidewalk_{sodEmoji.|}building

Uhm DASH is not allowed. Remember we are talking about pure car travel versus hybrid of car and transit. I know I could get a DASH lot pretty easy enough but thats not the point. DASH is not used by everybody as they should.

Well I like to look at some of Forbes articles. Well I happen to come across the latest for job potential in the US using the MSA's. Well Grand Rapids-Wyoming MSA is uhm not doing that well for job potential. We are 11th from the bottom for medium sized cities which translates to 86 out of 97 MSA's. In relation to every MSA's in the nation we rank 310 out of 336. But here is the kicker, Jackson (336), Detroit-Dearborn-Livionia (335), Saginaw (334), Flint (333), Battle Creek (331), Muskegon (326), Holland-Grand Haven (324), Ann Arbor (322) are all below us. Above us includes Kalamazoo (303), Warren-Troy-Farmington (294), Lansing (273), Niles-Benton Harbor (257). Needless to say the GM plant closing had a bit to do with this along with the number of Automotive suppliers we have here in the area. We did drop 12 spots this year. Kzoo dropped 9 along with most of the other MSA's in the state. A few did rise though. Battle Creek went up 3 spots, Ann Arbor 6, Warren 26, Lansing 43, and Benton Harbor 7. To see the full listing here is the LINK.

Thats why if I get called for Jury Duty agian which considering I have served with no issues at all the two times in the past 7 years I think its quite possible. I did find out that I would only have to serve once every two years. So thats not too bad considering I vote and drive.

I would love to see somebody try to drive from 60th and Division to the federal court house using 131 and see if they could beat the BRT at 7AM?

Yeah I saw the video. I tried to post comments on it but failed. BTW the video taker had garbage bags hanging in front of him in the first few seconds of the 1st video.

Okay if is so involved into local politics why is voting against something that WILL save our cities. Our cities are facing mounting debt issues like you wont believe. When I see budget shortfalls that make the feds look small by comparison its scary. I say by percentages of revenue that comes in and expenses that come out. The hillarous thing is if actually started looking at how these cities are struggling by he would not be voting no. Its not like there is extra money sitting in the pockets of these cities. They HAVE Zero extra. They are required not only to have a balanced budget, but surpluses in certian accounts. On top of this the state agencies keep on requiring further more things to be done but provide no money to do these items on top of the extra fees that they charge the cities. Frankly I think it would scary to see these cities decide to layoff all of the cops and stop collecting revenue and see how the good doctor likes his way into work.

He is an idiot and should get into local politics before shouting out his big &&& mouth about stuff he has no clue about. If this fails because of him I am going to get very angry at him. This is a do or die situation for our cities. We have a great philanthogists but they can not spend the amount of money that is required to make this happen. They may even turn away from our people and decide Cleveland or Orlando would be a better place to spend their wealth. I for one do want to see that happen. I feel this being our last hope to keep them interested in our city. We turned down a HUGE gift in the form of the zoo from F&L Meijer. We better not screw up this time.

Not a bad video but now I have a face to go with that idiot. Here is a good slogan that should have been used, SAVE OUR CITIES VOTE YES ON MAY 5th!

Yeah the southern connection would have to be down by Byron Township, which is not in any way capable of doing it yet. But since the Park that is just south of 60th it would not have to go too far. In anycase I think Wyoming needs to work on getting it connected to the Kentwood Trail that ends at Division then get a better route north of 36th St.

I agree that it is only a small bike trail for the southern end of the BRT line. It does need some work. I think though your judgement of it south of 36th and north of 44th is off base since most of those are side streets which have very little traffic. Outside of that the trail will be viable if they can connect it from 50th to 44th a little better. I did not see much of a path running between those two streets. A good bike crossing points across 44th and 36th would be benifical. Since 44th is a boulvevard it should be pretty easy. 36th is a diffrent story but there is an option with the street that the GM plant sits on, that has a signal. Outside of that its the Northern stretch that is very difficult to follow. As I said it would be a very good trail if the BRT line gets built since Wyoming is looking at that trail for improvements.

The power lines that run about 1/4 mile from Division Ave has a bike trail. It was one of the main items in the Design Charette for the 54th/60th stations. In anycase that line I believe is gonna connect to the South Beltline Trail and goes north all the way to 28th St. I am not sure how far north it runs since I did not grab the Wyoming Bike Trail map at the city offices. If you happen to be around that area I would suggest you pick up a copy if you are interested in biking in Wyoming. They are currently looking at means of putting the map on city webserver but it is a pretty big file so nothing yet. In anycase Kentwood has a trail that runs around 50th street but it ends just before Division. Connecting those two lines is in the plans. Wyoming btw pays for these lines by the means of the Parks Millage.

BTW in regards to the bike trails, the city of Wyoming has a plan to extend the trail that runs on their side of the Division to the Kentwood trail across Division. That should help with some people in that regard. As for linking that trail to the BRT Stations, the 4 stations of 60th, 54th, 44th, and 36th are easy to connect to the trail since they stations are on the major cross streets. Another point to make is that this BRT line will have a station at the new Kroc Center being built off Division.

1. Ecomony - We are a Health Focused City and as a result we are nationally recongized in that regard. Economy for us has been the best outside Ann Arbor or Lansing both major government centers for our state. Next we are looking at 2012 before this line is up and running which just happens to be when Medical Mile should have most projects finished, hence traffic concerns are a problem when US 131 is running at over 100k cars per day. 2. The money has already been earmarked and as result WILL be spent. It will either be spent here or somewhere else. Mine as get the money than let somebody else get it. As for the national debt, well we ALWAYS had one even under Jackson. What we need to do is stop using the income tax and use a property tax IMHO. 3. Yes there is a cost to this but Wyoming has a street millage that can be used to convert Division into a Boulevard and Grand Rapids has already started on sections. 4. From what I have seen online is that in most cities there seems to be an initial slow period but word of mouth will get more people to choose the bus. I seen one vid that had 3 people on a bus then 3 months later it was 15 to 20 and getting more every few months. 5. The BRT rate of operation is similar to the #1 bus but it WILL be on time and each station will have an accurate time to arival to let the riders know when it will be there. 6. A BRT line provides a much faster in and out, people will prefer this system over the traditional bus. But the downside is it does not stop every 1/8 of a mile but rather every 1/2 to 1 mile. That means there is more people at each station vs stop and as a result they tend to start looking around more and shop if they are using a park and ride area. I went to the design charette for the 54th/60th stations and trust me when you see what happened in Cleveland you will understand. 7. In the morning the Northbound lanes will have one for cars and one for the BRT line along with a shared lane and car lane for the Southbound lanes. In the evening periods it will be reversed. I am assuming during noon time where traffic is the heaviest all 4 lanes will be for cars. 8. I am hoping 1 year before they convert route 28. But that is not going to happen I am thinking it will take about 3 years before another line will be looked at. As for upgrading to a Light Rail or Streetcar, I do not see that happening since it defeats the purpose of being able to alter the line in the future. BTW here is the traffic counts for South Division in wyoming.

The reason to vote for this is the fact that it will take the area south of 44th develop it better. Most of that area is vacant commerical buildings or newer suburb buildings that dont mesh. As a result it looks horrid and that depresses property values. The BRT line will create 1/4 mile diameter hubs that has been shown to create a walkable livable neighboorhood. By doing this it increases property values that at present are pretty low. If you want I can go through AccessKent and get you all of the property values along division but it will take some time. In anycase the increase of property values will help the cities of Grand Rapids, Kentwood, and Wyoming in keeping services they are currently providing kept. As for Grandville, Walker, and East Grand Rapids. EGR may get a line to Blodgett running on Lake Drive then linking to the Michigan St section. As for Walker I can see a line running on Alpine Ave that links to the Monroe Ave section. As for Grandville they will get served by a 28th St line that would link the Airport to Metro health. Those 3 new lines can ONLY happen if we support this millage request. All told you are looking at 4 lines that would link a large population of the city with each other as well as all of the major hospitals, airport, and commerical districts except for Plainfeild since that township has not voted to become part of the Rapid. As for going to small eletric vehicles, I can see people using them to get from parts farther than the stations to the stations and parking in park and ride lots. You have to remember that most people will not walk more than 1/8th of a mile when they will just hop into a vehicle. As for why I am saying vote to increase property values. The City of Wyoming is seeing an increase of costs that unless they get a large amount of property value increase every year until the state starts providing the revenue sharing that they have cut and kept at the same amount. By not increasing the cities are finding it harder to keep making budgets. Now I can get more involved into revenue sharing but needless to say its a major issue why the cities are trying to spur development. Since their only means of increasing revenue is by having a larger tax base.

Oh man, this is so hillarous talking about the area of 54th and 60th. Has anybody lived in that area? I have. Trust me that area could use BRT like you wont believe. Most of the people that will use the BRT line will be students, consider at least 600 if not more students per day. Getting from that area to CC is a PAIN in the neck. You have to travel to Kzoo then onto m6 then 131 to get downtown. Plus its not like north wyoming which has some good back roads to get downtown but thats it. North kentwood has no such back roads and as a result the best routes downtown is 131 or division. The traffic on 131 is unbearable. As for not having anything in the area, you are correct but thats a GREAT thing. Having a clean slate means that it will be easier for developments. I would expect the wyoming planning commission be extremely busy in a years time if this get passed. Kentwood not as much but dont count it out. Grand Rapids has already setup several areas for developement around their stations.