NYCJSW
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Posts posted by NYCJSW
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Coupe I hope we see another proposal for shockoe bottom as well. I hope it happens more and more now. I never knew that Bryan Bostic was one of the guys that was in with the old shockoe bottom stadium proposal. I feel the same way about it too I definitly think we will see a new version of the shockoe bottom stadium proposal. I cant wait to see what it will all be like too.
Richmond has got to get the stadium built in the bottom. You have lots of new stuff going on in downtown but it is still very fragmented. You really need to get some foot traffic down there and what better way to do it. If you can get at least 5K people down there routinely for a game that would add so much to the downtown area. Short Pump is lively b/c you can always count on people being there. The area feeds off that from the bars to the restaurants. In downtown you can go there during the day or some weeknights and it is dead. The canal has not taken off because of this and I think the entire area needs the traffic to really keep the momentum going or to take it up a few notches. Why some businesses fought the idea of a downtown ballpark I'll never understand? Why Richmond leaders listened to them is even dumber.
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I lived right by Fairfax Corner until almost 2 years ago when we moved back to this area. We would eat at Coastal Flats a few times a week. The Delux theater was great and I really thought one here would work out well. It was only like $1.50-$2 more for a ticket but it was so nice. They serve wine and have reserve seating. From my understanding the high end theater segment is the fastest growing segment of the theater market. I can see why. I just put a theater in my house and it will take a lot more now to bring to the movie theaters. As more families stay home to watch movies the theaters have to step up. There is a real dumpy theater by Chesterfield Towne Center that will be out of business right when the one in Westchester opens. That entire area around the Towne Center needs to be fixed up. I live off Robious Road in a new neighborhood and for all the nice homes in this neck of the woods there are far too little nice areas to shop. Westchester Commons won't fill that void either.
"I know it's about a mile away from Westchester, but I've always been frustrated by the "village of Midlothian" because if Chesterfield put even an ounce of effort into it, Midlothian could become a fantastic walkable town with a rich history of rail a mining to boot. It's a perfect spot to have a light rail link to other walkable parts of the region too. That area deserved a village master plan decades ago."
Well, I think you might be giving me false hope. I mean I had a lot of hope for the Westchester project but that turned into a big nothing but I guess I can now dream that one day Chesterfield might do something great with the "Village of Midlothian" area. I met a couple that moved to Salisbury almost 25 years ago and they said that the Village of Midlothian is what attracted them to the area. They had thought the village would have been developed more like you said and there was talk about doing it decades ago but nothing has ever happened.
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This Watkins Center/Westchester Commons projects is falling short of what I expected. All the talk for years was about a pedestrian friendly high end lifestyle center on this site and now this is what we get. Talk about average and no vision. It looks to be about the same thing as the Commonwealth shopping area off Hull Street. I was really hoping Chesterfield would build something like the West Broad Village project. The Westchester design does not really seem all that walkable. I mean the projects is all divided up by a sea of parking spaces. Why didn't they have everything more connected with green space and have parking on the outer rim of it. In a previous thread I contrasted the Westchester design with Fairfax Corner. See the difference for yourself.
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For the first 2 months of the year RIA has 507,918 passengers while NIA has 491,987 passengers! I would think Norfolk would pull ahead over the summer months but who knows. This might be the year we overtake Norfolk! A lot of people are driving here from the Fredericksburg area that used to use Reagan and Dulles.
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Wrong. VCU doesn't want to debate this issue because, thanks to the MOU, it doesn't have to bother to debate anyone at all. VCU has the absolute right to demolish West whenever it wants. Please try to keep up, would you?
I don't think saving West Hospital is going to make you happy. Try to relax and enjoy life!
You seem to be missing the point. We all know VCU has the absolute right to demolish the building. Have you read in this thread the repeated requests for VCU to explain why they won't use an alternative site (it was requested by you)?
Creativeclass
"Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this."
I responded to your request for an explanation with the quote you provided. So your keep up statement is rather odd. But a lot of your posts have a rather bitter tone to them.
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Nice review. I live off of Robious Road so I'm not too far from the Bellegrade RCD. They always deliver by offering consistency, value and great food!
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"Nobody opposes VCU's quest for world-class facilities - but no one has explained why West must be demolished in order to accomplish this."
I skipped over this post because you directed it towards Burt. I read it this morning (after I read his response to it) and I found this last sentence to be pretty revealing. You even put the word "must" in bold. I'm afraid you have set the bar too high. There will never be an explanation that will satisfy you. If you are that convinced there are better alternatives than no matter what anyone says will convince you that West Hospital MUST be demolished. This is why VCU does not want to enter the debate - it isn't productive.
The RTD has an article on the Downtown Master Plan. It mentions how the reivised draft softens the language on saving West Hospital and brings up "other options".
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-co...03-02-0240.html
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Well, if I'm the Spin Doctor, then you're "little Miss, little Miss can't be wrong".
Seriously, I get it. You think there has not been an adequate explanation as to why West Hospital needs to be destroyed. I (others) think the importance of saving West Hospital has not been explained in a way that overcomes the need to replace it with a more useful building. This past week I drove from the 64 East to the Downtown expressway and looked for West Hospital. The views of the hospital were marginal at best. The building is dwarfed by other larger buildings. Sure there might be a spot or two where if you had a zoom camera you could focus in on West Hospital but for the most part all you could see was the roof top. Since you can pretty much only see the roof top. Saving the roof top design and putting either the same roof or one of similar design on the new building would seem like a good comprimse.
"As to the Village Cafe: I may be the only VCU graduate who hasn't patronized the place; but I think I'll plan a visit on your recommendation. Thanks!"
My recommendation was based on the fact that you would find a receptive audience for your "save West Hospital arguments". If you enjoy "preaching to the choir" it is the place for you to be. As far as the food, I'd pass.
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Reading your quote I was a bit confused. Perhaps because you were taking bits of my post and inserting VCU where I had the word "we".
Here is my original statement:
"Just as the right for VCU to tear down West Hospital has been established, I feel the reasoning for VCU to want to tear down West Hospital has also been established. We have already explained why alternatives are not as useful or practical. Some may not buy into this reasoning but it has been given over and over."
I never wrote VCU has already explained..... They don't have to, shouldn't and probably won't crawl into the mud on this issue. When I wrote we, I meant those in favor of building a new building on the West Hospital site. Why must you hear the same thing from VCU when it is clear why they don't want alternatives?
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"But they've done so much for this city.....let's give them a pass to do whatever they want. They deserve it!! After all, without [insert name of institution or politician here], downtown would be Bosnia." But they've done so much for this city.....let's give them a pass to do whatever they want. They deserve it!! After all, without [insert name of institution or politician here], downtown would be Bosnia." And this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve.
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Do you want me to throw you a flotation device? You are clearly headed off the deep end. Well, remember in this case there are very few people that care about West Hospital being saved. Most people in the region would favor a strong MCV with an aggressive Hospital expansion that brings lots of good jobs to the area. Actually, I was involved in the process when VCU had yet to expand - when the engineering school was just talk and was thought to be going at the corner of Broad and Belvidere. Do you even remember how bad that part of Broad Street was? The entire Monroe Park campus area has been transformed as well as Broad Street. You have a freakin Starbucks, Cold Stone and a new Krogers on Broad Street! Believe me, the city was such a little player in all this action - Trani/VCU did 99.9 % of it. Now VCU is doing the same thing to the area just east of Belvidere. Also, look at the MCV campus! Not only all the buidlings VCU built but also the contruction built because of VCU. The biomedical center and the Phillip Morris expansion downtown.
You want to mock everything VCU has done? Well you also want the area to give a select few (those who want to save West Hospital) a very strong voice in the process. Your blanket statement "and this is how the powerful become arrogant and unresponsive to those that they serve" might get better play at the Village Cafe.
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I understand that everyone now is in agreement that VCU can do what it wants to do. The previous poster claimed that the VCU/Richmond relationship is a unique one and implied that this type of thing would only occur in Richmond. Just as the right for VCU to tear down West Hospital has been established, I feel the reasoning for VCU to want to tear down West Hospital has also been established. We have already explained why alternatives are not as useful or practical. Some may not buy into this reasoning but it has been given over and over.
Here is a good article in Style Weekly about the recent VCU expansion to the east.
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"What's interesting is that they don't want to seem like bad guys while they're executing their long-term plans. They'll promise Richmond anything short of preserving the building, while in the end they will do as they please. That's how things happen in this city, and NYC JSW knows it. His arrogance proves it."
Yes, this is such a unique situation. Its "how things happen in this city" and no where else. Give me a break! I keep reading this same type of rant (on these boards, styleweekly etc) and it is such a boring point. Most of these people making this point have never really lived anywhere else or are comparing apples to oranges. Do you really think other cities that have such an important player like VCU, who has done so much for the city, would stop them from knocking down a buidling they own? Before you answer remember apples to apples - West Hospital is no Empire State Building by any stretch. Sure it has an Art Deco design and a neat roof but it is not seen as a city treasure (only a small group of preservationist). The Master Plan discussions and all the promises that go along with it occurs all across this country in hundreds of cities. That's how things happen! Not just in mean old Richmond with big bad VCU.
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Yes, I used to live right by Fairfax Corner and was excited when I heard Watkins Center might be a carbon copy. When you look at what they have planned it is a joke. This Westchester retail center is in no way pedestrian friendly. How can you walk around this thing? You will basically have to park, get out of your car and go in a store. Then get back in your car and drive to another store? For those of you who have never been to Fairfax Corner I linked it. You can compare the two projects. What a loss! Chesterfield really blew this one. They had an opportunity to have something totally unique to the Richmond area. (edit) I guess West Broad Village is more in line with what I was thinking Westchester/Watkins would be.
http://www.zarembagroup.com/shopping_westchester.html
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The coming soon sign for Fresh Market is up in the Barnes & Noble parking lot by Chestefield Towne Center. Since Barnes & Noble won't move until the summer, Fresh Market probably won't open till the Fall. I think it is a good idea that Chesterfield Towne Center is going high end and becoming more pedestrian friendly. When I heard about Watkin Center I was hoping it was going to be a lifestyle center like Fairfax corner or Reston but now the plans look like it is just another Commonwealth Center type of project.
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"Personal hatred for the building does not make an argument against the building."
Cadeho,
I don't hate the building. I just don't think it is worth saving. It could be said that some people on here "love" the building. It seems like the common compromise that keeps getting brought up is building a new building with similar rooftop features as West Hospital. To me this is a good idea and would be a nice tribute to West Hospital. I think it would also serve as a tribute to those who fought to have West Hospital saved.
The other compromise is building a new hospital in another location and converting West Hospital to another use. This compromise requires more logical leaps then the first. Those wanting this compromise fail to mention how much it would cost to convert West Hospital to another use and does a market for this even exist. There is also the issue of finding another alternative spot that is just as good as the one West Hospital is on.
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Hey Spin Doctor, you should have read the article first, before dropping your inane comments into a 'serious' forum. By the way, are they paying you by the response or by the word to post here?
edit - per was going to respond to personal attack
My joke had NOTHING to do with your post.
I read the article you linked (before you linked it). It states there is a growing trend for students to buy instead of rent. It in no way suggests a need for a housing facility the size of West Hospital. I don't think anyone besides ACORN is suggesting a market for such a thing.
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I just thought up a brilliant idea. Since the undergrad campus can use a lot more housing on their campus, perhaps VCU can find a way to move West Hospital to the Monroe Park campus. I mean, they moved Cape Hatteras Light House so how much harder could it be to move West Hospital? It only needs to go up Broad Steet about a mile. Think big! (tongue in cheek)
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Well, your first paragraph points out what I thought. What the masses/community thinks does not really matter, it is only what preservationists feel that is important. I would not call it tyranny of the majority. I think we are going a bit far with how important it is to save West Hospital. But by making some noise perhaps preservationists will win points for the next battle or get a good compromise on this issue?
Now your last paragraph makes a lot of sense in my opinion and would be a very valid "line in the sand" issue to battle on. VCU has already stated how important this building is to their future so perhaps the door is already opened for making this building one to remember. I don't think the roof design has to be a "disneyfied" rooftop and I think with input from preservationists the design could be grand. I think this is a very workable compromise and should be pushed to the front of the debate.
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When I wrote about bias I was pointing out that your position is a bit more extreme then you might think. Your worthy cause is probably not supported by much of the community. I guess you could respond and state "that's because most people don't understand how unique West Hospital really is and how this gem needs to be preserved"?
Now to the questions that worldcoup and creative brought up. They are pretty similar in nature. Clearly there are other options where VCU/MCV can expand. They could build in Henrico or Chesterfield and they could probably find a space closer to their medical campus than the counties. They can't find a space as good as where West Hospital sits. I think it is pretty obvious that the West Hospital spot is by far the best spot. So other spots are available (that is obvious) but they are not nearly as good as the West Hospital spot. Converting West Hospital to a useful medical facility would be very difficult and converting it to a state of the art facility would be impossible. Turning it into a residential facility also seems implausible. I residential facility of this size right in the center of the MCV campus does not sound that appealing or needed. If you did that and tore down the old dorms you would free up some land but that land would be very far away from the main MCV campus.
I pointed out why your compromises in my opinion won't work. Why don't you explain why a new building with roof top features similar to West Hospital won't work? Keep in mind that West Hospital is far from being a national treasure. We are not talking about the Chrysler building. We are talking about a building that most residents of the city don't really care about.
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I did not think I was doing line by line quotes. I was using quotes to keep my post organized and to help the reader. If that gets me banned it is rather petty. Plus, I see a lot of people using quote boxes. I just don't know how to do it on this message board.
I'll answer the posts in order starting with Wrldcoupe.
You broke down what each side wants in this debate and you describe the preservationists cause as "a worthy cause given the role the building played in the local community". I think that is a rather biased view. I understand that is how your side may feel but I don't think most members of the Richmond area would see it that way. I think most would feel that the preservationists think West Hospital is a really unique building and just want to save it. I don't feel that many would think your cause is worthy.
As far as the pictures go. I think they do little to help your cause. Besides the roof, the building does not look very good. I think a great compromise is tearing the building down but somehow incorporating the original roof design of West Hospital. Regardless nice pictures.
Cadeho brought up the question: "How would they after a tour come to a negative conclsuion that the building is useless without that thought implanted from their tourguide."
Well, I thought I said my tour would include a few hours on the MCV campus. If you took people inside West Hospital you would quickly see that it is not very useful. The building is not set up for modern use and the elevator system is a big problem. Basically it is a giant storage closet.
Well, it seems there is agreement that VCU can do whatever it wants. But perhaps the preservations will get a compromise (no this is not a joke) and VCU will incorporate the original roof design of West Hospital in the new building. This to me seems like a very reasonable goal to shoot for and one the public would get behind. Saving the entire building is not going to happen. 2 cents
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"You've got to be joking."
Ok, so I guess the only "compromise" you are looking for is if VCU keeps West Hospital? Your side of the debate keeps talking about how VCU should compromise and how they should be willing to do so. Ok, well the poster offered up a compromise and you seem to reject it. It seems like your side is unwilling to compromise!
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"Knock down West Hospital, rebuild it using the same design with modernized facade accompanied with the brand new inside. The design is awesome, all that needs to be done is modernization. Forgive my ignorance if something like this has already been posted, just my two cents."
I don't know. The constuction cost would be a bit more. But I guess that is a good compromise that would make both sides happy.
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"So because VCU has been a force for positive change, that justifies giving them a pass on any scrutiny of decisions that affect the community?"
To some degree, yes. We are not saying that VCU should be allowed to tear down vibrant neighborhoods just because they want to. What we are saying is VCU should be allowed to tear down a building they own, that is not usefull, that would better serve the future of the hospital and the city if were were torn down. The other side is claiming - keep the building up, it is an art deco building that is somewhat unique.
As I wrote earlier. If you brought 100 people to Richmond and took them for a tour all around the city, I doubt anyone would remember West Hospital. If your tour included a few hours on the MCV campus I'm sure most of the people would have a negative view of West Hospital. Have you been in there to see how nonfuctional it really is?
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"What I find amazing is that anytime a compromise is suggested (like I did above or the many others thrown out there), the idea is just steamrolled over, the person written off as unsupportive of change"
Ok, so for a compromise why don't we tear down West Hospital but as you suggest VCU will build some type of housing facility on an empty parking lot for professionals. Oh, you mean all your "compromises" only mean VCU compromises and West Hospital remains standing. The building you want to keep is right in center of the MCV campus. I'm not even sure how well it would work as a residential unit. Plus, don't we have lots of new residential/condo units downtown?
"It just seems incredibly hard to believe that VCU's success or failure as an international center for medicine and the growth of our city hinge on one building remaining when there are many more empty lots and less memorable buildings all around which could be used to take VCU to that next level."
What a lot of other people find equally hard to believe is why some feel this West Hospital is so important. I think there are some people who have chosen to fight this fight not for saving West Hospital but for trying to stick it to VCU. That may not be everyone but there clearly is a history of people in Richmond picking fights with VCU over what many would consider petty reasons.
"The agreement was executed in a different era. In the 90s, VCU could have bulldozed everything and constructed whatever it wanted. After all, city residents were used to being told what was best for them."
Lets face it. VCU has made this area what it is today and I feel strongly that they should have far and away the most input on what happens to West Hospital. Look at both campuses compared to 20 years ago and it is incredible how far these areas have come! You can thank VCU for it.
Seriously, I get it. You think there has not been an adequate explanation as to why West Hospital needs to be destroyed. I (others) think the importance of saving West Hospital has not been explained in a way that overcomes the need to replace it with a more useful building. This past week I drove from the 64 East to the Downtown expressway and looked for West Hospital. The views of the hospital were marginal at best. The building is dwarfed by other larger buildings. Sure there might be a spot or two where if you had a zoom camera you could focus in on West Hospital but for the most part all you could see was the roof top. 
Richmond Dining-Out scene
in Richmond
Posted
It is located in the former Caffe Di Pagliacci spot across from the old Bogarts. I had a good dinner there last fall before a VCU game. There was a good review of the place a while back in either Style Weekly or RTD.