Henry_Ryto
-
Posts
208 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Project Database
User Guide
Store
Events
Posts posted by Henry_Ryto
-
-
Consultants evaluated lines several years ago and chose to extend first to the Beach and then to the Norfolk Naval Station on a fast route roughly parallel to Military Highway. They believed that fast access to the base would increase potential ridership a great deal, as do I. Once there, there would be a problem circulating riders to diverse on-base destinations, but the Navy needs to pick up that ball, security issues and all.
HRT already has two free shuttle buses on the base, Routes 75 and 77.
-
I agree, Urban -- I think the real gem of this is Euclid Road and Pocahantas Village. The Kellam Road crossing of the tracks gives N-S access, w/o the Pembroke mess. I may have to start keeping my eye open for sales in there.
Anyone know if there is a proposed LR stop between Newtown and the eventual one at Town Center? Will TC be the first when VB eventually gets on the LR bandwagon?
The 1999 proposal had a stop at Witchduck Road.
As that would be in walking distance of my apartment, I'd certainly use it.
-
The City of Virginia Beach would never do it: too much tax revenue generated by Pembroke Mall.
-
I agree with the voting for her because of LR. Most people I talk to hate her and I don't understand why. Frequently I hear "Meyra Obern-dork" lol. I do not agree! I think she has played a crucial part in TC and is doing just fine! Hopefully she will be re-elected at least one more time and make this happen, though I doubt it can be done during one term.
Oh, and it better not be street level! I would rather the city pay more and build it elevated over the tracks, though my dream would be to have it going down the median of VB Blvd then pull off to one side for the stations.
I voted against Meyera in 2000 (Corillo) and 2004 (Dean). She is snarky with anyone who disagrees with her, elitist, a Democratic fundraiser, etc. That said, she's the lesser of evils in the 2008 field so far, with Will Sessoms and Don Weeks. While Weeks is anti-LRT, remember that Sessoms was one of two Council members (along with Barbara Henley) who endorsed a "Yes" vote on the 1999 referendum question. (Then, Sessoms is a dyed-in-wool facist, so I'd never vote for him.)
The previous poster is correct: the busier roads in Virginia Beach would be bridged over.
-
According to Virginia News Source, Meyera Oberndorf has already made the first promise of her 2008 reelection campaign: to bring light rail to Town Center.
-
I went to the APTA TOD Conference today.
1. Contrary to a previous story in The Virginian-Pravda, HRT gave a presentation on Norfolk LRT that had the system operating 6 A.M.-Midnight daily.
That means we can take it home from midweek Admirals games.
2. We were told the key to LRT stations is to make them more than transit stations, focal points for the community. Don't assume people will walk in the area: make it pedestrian-friendly.
3. Best line of the day, "BRT is the Barry Bonds of rapid transit...a bus on steroids."
-
That happens anywhere. I live in Montreal, which arguably has one of the best public transport systems in North America. Missing buses or a subway train because of them being full is not uncommon during rush hours and that's with the subway running every 3 minutes and buses every 5 (when they're not late). Train service during rush hours here is like every 10 minutes, and they're jammed packed, especially from 7-8 and 4-5. And getting a seat? That is the exception rather than the norm for any time of day on any mode of transport unless you happen to live near the terminus of whatever you're getting onto or you're using it at like 1:45pm, or some other off hour time. That's just one reason why I'm very skeptical that light rail will work in HR, that service will be too infrequent to get people to use it.
I've been to Montreal and rode the Metro. A very good system.
As for Hampton Roads, the planned frequencies are the lightest possible that people will still ride: every 15 minutes midday, every 7.5 minutes at rush hour. If ridership is high, we can always go back and add frequencies later. Where I have a problem with the planned schedule:
1. Only every 30 minutes in the evening.
2. Shutting down at 10 P.M. Monday-Thursday.
That's too early if you're trying to get home from a Tides or Admirals game.
-
As I've said before, the major bus routes (1, 15, and 20) are too busy at rush hour to be handled well by the "toasters on wheels." We need some sort of new system to cover them; it looks like it will be LRT now.
I took the bus into Norfolk today to see a matinee of Michael Moore's "Sicko". Catching the 20 home, I hit a myriad of problems: 18 minutes late leaving downtown, standees front to back, etc. The standee problem was so bad that at a couple stops people decided to wait for the next bus rather than pile in with us.
We need trains, every 7.5 minutes at rush hour.
-
Ohh, lease we forget political persuasions, but of Course....EVERYONE....knows that:
Trains / Mass transit = Liberals
Cars / Roads = Conservatives
Not quite:
1. I'm a Republican who was a member of the Virginia Beach Republican City Committee 1998-2005.
2. James Toscano, HRT's chief lobbyist, is a former aide for Bob McDonnell.
Not such a neat box.
-
Without entertaining the unnecessarily condescending question at the end, I'd like to remind you that I never suggested that any other form of transportation wouldn't work to some degree in Va Beach. I'm open to all solutions that could be affective. However, in light of what you said, it begs the question, why acquiring any kind of mass transit system, that could be a catalyst for the entire region, light rail or otherwise, would not be spear-headed by VA Beach according to details about the city I already stated and that everyone in the 757 region is already aware of. Sure 30 foot hybrid buses are a good idea, complimentarily, except for the fact that they still have to confront traffic woes, just like all other motor vehicles. Whereas rail transit can bypass such headaches. Furthermore, rail transit travels on a direct route, making vast distances between certain areas, which is also indicative of VA Beach, seem like only a hop-skip away. So, it would actually make more sense that the vast sprawling, premiere city of VA Beach, imaginary Green Line or not, would take the lead in light rail, versus the city of Norfolk where in many districts you can walk or ride your bike to the mall. Lets not forget that VA Beach has almost twice as many people as Norfolk and just as much traffic, if not more.
Fairly simple:
1. LRT is an urban system.
2. Norfolk is urban.
3. Virginia Beach is essentially an overgrown suburb that's just starting to urbanize.
Therefore, it is natural for Norfolk to be spearheading light rail.
-
I like VA Beach, but, actually, I think that it dropped the ball on light rail a long time ago. The citizens and city council members missed a really good opportunity to enhance the profile of the city, by possibly drawing new businesses, venues, hotels, etc. VA Beach already has a lot going for it as far as being a resort city and the quality of life is concerned. However, one would think that it being the largest city in population in the state and having more undeveloped land than Norfolk, it would have spear-headed alongside Norfolk, an attempt to finally acquire an authentic mass transit system, i.e. light rail. I could go on, even about seeking a pro sports team and building a major business district too (which they are just now building in the form of Town Center...thats strange). And yet, what do you know, Norfolk, the smaller city, has done all that by its self. That says a lot about Norfolk's ambition, although, sometimes misguided.
As for Va Beach, why, if its the world's largest resort city, in size, does it not have a city wide mass transit system. Thats rather odd. In a resort city, lots of visitors have to be shuttled around efficiently, especially during the tourist season. I mean, for goodness sake, have you seen Atlantic avenue during the summer months. Its like a parking lot; and they depend on buses and faux trolleys? In anycase, I think that LRT in Norfolk will eventually spread to other cities (so I hope) in the 757, maybe to Portsmouth or Chesapeake before anywhere else.
As I mentioned before, Virginia Beach has a Citywide Transit Plan in the works. 30-foot hybrid buses are ideal for the low-density subdivisons that make up most of our city.
My hypothesis is that LRT down the Norfolk Southern ROW will come out as a section of the Plan. Therefore, you can't vote against LRT without rejecting the entire Plan.
Virginia Beach is running out of greenfields for development north of the Green Line. I would argue the only rational way for Virginia Beach to continue to grow is to go to Smart Growth in the Norfolk Southern Corridor. Fittingly our new Chief Development Officer, former Suffolk City Manager Steve Herbert, is a Smart Growther. Want to connect the dots?
-
Something similar (a monorail, not maglev) was proposed for the Oceanfront but dropped due to lack of city interest (the developer basically wanted the city to fund most of the cost and they weren't too keen on that).
It was $67 million for a monorail going 5 blocks, from the Dome site to the convention center.
A HRT official I spoke to was incredulous that Virginia Beach would seriously look at such a proposal after turning down a BRT system for the entire Resort Area that would have cost $24.4 million.
Saner heads prevailed and the monorail was ditched.
-
City engineers have made clear that the entire Resort Area will be gridlocked by 2010 unless we go to one-way streets. However, the VBHMA and RRA cling to their silly positions.
-
The APTA transit conference will be held in Norfolk this year. For more information check our calendar.
I mailed in my registration and check for Thinking Beyond the Station conference last night. The registration deadline is July 6.
-
Can someone explain this briefly?
It was my statement, so I will. The Virginia Beach Hotel/Motel Association (VBHMA) is determined to maintain the traffic pattern status quo on Atlantic Avenue.
1. They oppose going to one-way traffic on Atlantic and Pacific.
a. They believe visitors drive up-and-down Atlantic window shopping for hotel accomodations.
b. Going to one-way would turn traffic away from some businesses at the gateway points.
2. They want to be able to use the trolley lanes also for charter bus loading/unloading and business delivery parking.
That was what became the biggest stumbling block for BRT: FTA regulations require that dedicated BRT lanes be used exclusively for BRT. You can't maintain two-way traffic, have loading zones, and dedicated BRT lanes at the same time.
LRT would face similar obstacles: the VBHMA would want to maintain two-way traffic and loading zones on Atlantic Ave. There's not enough room to do it all.
-
This is the type of thing that will help make light rail more attractive. I hope they plan on similar assets for the rail line.
"possibly" Wi-fi; HRT is still doing a cost/benefit analysis on it.
However, I am looking forward to The Rapid.
-
LRT on Atlantic isn't a bad idea, even though it would require separate line. If they opt not to do that, I would recommend blocking car traffic and only let the busses drive down that street.
Sort of like Denver's 16st Mall...
LRT on Atlantic Ave. is a non-starter: the VBHMA doesn't want anyone touching the traffic patterns on Atlantic. (See: BRT debate)
-
You seem extremely sure of that.. but why? I've never been more than a visitor at VB so I'm not familiar with the political landscape.
To quote a senior city staffer, "The Resort Area is the Balkans." You have the three trade associations (Virginia Beach Hotel/Motel Association, Virginia Beach Restaurant Association, and Resort Retailers Association) plus those three have their own factions. Getting a consensus on an issue like LRT would be a nightmare; just look at what happened with BRT.
-
After a bit of research:
The railroad right-of-way actually ends at Birdneck, but the remainder of the right-of-way east to Pacific is owned by the city, and used as a rail-trail. The fact that the right-of-way is still intact and owned by the city is good, but the fact that it is a rail-trail could be a hurdle to making LRT happen. If VB pursues light rail to the oceanfront, I hope they don't go the route of "keep the trail like it is; put the light rail on the street" for that segment. You can bet that neighborhood residents will STRONGLY advocate that position. But the truth is, the Norfolk Avenue right-of-way combined with the former railroad right-of-way is plenty wide enough to fit the road, the light rail, and a 12' wide sidewalk to replace the trail.
At any rate, light rail just works better when it's in a dedicated right-of-way, rather than mixed traffic.
It would make sense for the LRT to turn north once it hits Pacific. It would be nice if there were some way to keep the trains off-street through the oceanfront area, but aside from a ridiculously expensive elevated structure or massive acquisitions of some pretty expensive real estate, that just won't happen. But at least keep it off-street west of the oceanfront...
Politics will keep LRT out of the Resort Area. Maybe northeast from Birdneck to the convention center. Feeder buses from there into the Resort Area.
Under a $5 million Federal grant, HRT is soon looking to buy 30-foot hybrid buses to begin replacing the overage VB Wave trolley fleet. The purchase has been endorsed by the Resort Advisory Commission (on which I sit) and now awaits City Council's approval. $5 million will buy 14-15 buses; the current trolley fleet is 32. A second $5 million grant application is in the works.
Oceana is close enough to the Norfolk Southern ROW that it can easily be served by a feeder bus route.
-
Mr. Ryto -- would you explain that logic chain, please? Why does that make LR more attractive to VB? What destinations attractive to VB would be served by this routing? If you think that a NOB destination is attractive to VB, then how will you move passengers around NOB once they arrive? Where would they orginate in VB w/ a NOB destination?
Is the desirable destination for VB ODU and not NOB?
I would suggest that after an extension to the oceanfront, the planning that needs to start now is for inclusion of a LR tube in the new Midtown tunnel to link Portsmouth to Norfolk -- possibly down Effingham, near the Naval Hospital, all the way to the shipyard. It would be a shame for that tunnel to not include a way for LR to extend to Portsmouth. We are burdened with water choke points, and limited, expensive solutions to the throughput challenge. Mass transit can help solve the chokepoint capacity problems for years in the future -- but the planning needs to start now.
Simple: Navy base transit. Being able to take the train to the base would eliminate car trips there, plus HRT Route 19.
If you read my quoted post from hamptonroads.com, I agree with you on using the Midtown Tunnel to take LRT to Portsmouth. It might not take a third tube, but maybe the second tube wide enough with a barrier between the train tracks and traffic lanes.
-
The most logical first extension will be to the Oceanfront and then to NSN.
"The most logical first extension" would be EVMS to Norfolk NOB via ODU. That makes it much more attractive for Virginia Beach to get in.
As for the Beach, do we go in one leap (Newtown Rd.-Oceanfront) or in two steps (Newtown Rd.-Town Center, then Town Center-Oceanfront)? I would have long bet the latter, but I now believe it could be the former:
1. The ongoing Citywide Transit Plan will have to answer the Norfolk Southern ROW question, likely as one piece.
2. The Resort business community regular talks about a transit connection Resort Area - Town Center. LRT would answer it.
-
What about near the mall?
You could put it on Monticello Avenue beside the Mall if you can live with the missing traffic lane.
-
Let me throw out a Norfolk transit issue to you. If the Wachovia Center is built (as expected), the construction will force the HRT bus transfer position off of Charlotte Street, as it would be in the construction zone.
The City of Norfolk wanted to move it for construction duration to Wood Street, but the Fire Marshall nixed it: Station 1 is there on the corner, and the buses would impede Fire and EMS traffic.
So what is the alternative? UCAC member Kenneth Bone (Chesapeake) likes Harbor Park, figuring there will eventually be multimodal there with LRT and the proposed Higher Speed Rail station. My problem with that it's too seperated from downtown.
My personal preference is Plume Street. Just a short walk to MacArthur Mall, Waterside, and the NET. The hitch is it could get in the way of preliminary LRT construction work there.
Okay, geniuses, what do you propose?
-
I Googled myself and look what I found.
One of my hats is that I'm Virginia Beach's only active member on HRT's User Citizen Advisory Committee (UCAC).
Another hat is that I'm a Director with the Council of Civic Organizations (CCO), Virginia Beach's civic league federation. As for Ethan's comment about me hanging with tourism people, I'm the CCO's voting representative on VB's Resort Advisory Commssion (RAC).
Getting back to transit, Virginia Beach has a Citywide Transit Plan in the works. One of the questions to be answered is "What system goes down the Norfolk Southern Right-of-Way?" The top option is light rail, thus my comment on hamptonroads.com
If anyone is interested, the UCAC next meets this Wednesday evening (the 27th), 6:30 P.M., in the board room of HRT's Hampton office.
Finally, now that I've found this, I have it bookmarked. I look forward to being able to rationally discuss the region's transit future.
Norfolk Light Rail and Transit
in Norfolk
Posted
I'd extend EVMS to the Navy base via ODU ASAP. Not only does it make sense, but it makes it more attractive for Virginia Beach to get in. (VB would have access to ODU and the Navy base.)
As for the alignment, shoot up Colley Ave. to ODU. (I agree that the traffic problems on Hampton Blvd. would be too huge.) It's wide enough.