nuplanner

City north is actually on the boarder of Scottsdale and Phx, not Peoria. Now to answer MLJO comment about density and the valley. First of all, you have to look at the history of this valley and when it grew. 80% of what exist right now is post world war II. You look at what was the norm, it was sprawling, car centered, separate uses type of development. That just didn’t happen here, but everywhere. Second, there are few obstacles to restrict growth such as large mtn ranges, body’s of water and so forth. Next is, people came here because it was cheap, and people could own land and single family home with great desert views. This is the west too, cant forget that. Now in this forum, we talk about density, but what truly is density? Is it a tall skyscraper? Or is it a tight nit neighborhood and city of varied densities that met the needs of the people? I would say the latter. In fact, the whole city of LA one of or the highest density per sq mile than any other city in the country. However, people drive, and drive, and drive. Here is some data. http://www.demographia.com/db-ua2000-4dense.htm I would like to see an iconic downtown, but honestly, I really do not see that happening. I hope it does fill in all means that expands our small skyline that is seen on tv. I think that will happen, especially north of downtown. Also, density for the sack of density is not always a good, sustainable model. You have to work with your environment, and in the desert, you have to be very smart in how you encourage density. I think Phx’s urban form project addresses this from the best I have seen in any research I have done. However, the way the valley is, you have to find ways to expand density in smart ways and use what we have already created in this valley. That to me means pockets of density, or urban villages. Most downtowns are restricted by height, development, use, prop 207 and so forth. Next, land is still relatively cheap, and it is cheaper to go out than up on many fronts. I think Pinal county has looked at growth in a smart way in there comprehensive plan and scenarios. Good to look up sometime.

True. I just want to get some discussion about different topics. Even if things are down, right now is the best time to plan and talk about what AZ should shape out to be.

Some nice photos. But it seems that this forum is now dead! I really like it, but since things are not moving in the ecomony, not many things to talk about. I have tried to talk about new things, but nada. Its been fun and I hope the forum gets rolling again. I have a topic to post, but am not sure anyone will comment on it again. We will see.

I just think that Arizona got it wrong when they voted no on the growth boundary in 2000. The problem is, growth (i.e. construction) is a main source of jobs. That is a huge reason why college grads do not stay in AZ. There are not enough jobs to keep them here. However, we have been riding on the backs of cheap labor, gas, and horrible public policy in the southwest. For the past few decades, growth was the band-aid for the poor economy, and has been heavily depended on to support our local and state economy. We are going threw another cycle again, one that we have never seen with other elements affect it. Cost of everything is going up, and the medial income is not. We had too many people getting into the real estate market and investing that made it way un-sustainable. As a society, we expect that we could make so much on a home in 2 years, move further away in a bigger house, buy new things, put them on credit cards and in a few years, you sell your house again and pay it all off. It was false hope, a mirage by the local economy, our politicians, developers, media and citizens in general. Build more roads, more strip malls, drive drive drive! No thought was going into what happens when this boom defilades? What happens when gas does not come down, and the market falls? I know I almost got caught up in this, and every market is hurting from it. Yes, some development is still going on, but in general, things are going to be hurting big time due to this over inflation of the real estate market. Our neighborhoods are going to suffer too. Especially the master planned communities of the past two decades to the present. They are horrible designs, and anti social. These are the future slums. There is a reason why a large majority of foreclosures are out on the fringe of the city. Location and false hope of the cheap American dream fueled this for so long that this dream is now crumbling right before us. Its like we, as human beings are forgot how to build cities the past 5 decades, and have thrown out one of the most important elements, the human. Its out of scale, and that is what sprawl brings. Until we wise up, invest in our cities, and take control of our cities, we are going to get the same. Developers run this state, and they affect the outcomes of voting and how politicians act. It

I think the slow down is good for Arizona. We were growing to fast and were not planning smart. The developers controlled what was going on because of the cash flow that was coming in. Now that is dried up, and now we have time to sit back, be smart and rethink of all the crap that we just let happen out in the fringe. So, this is a time we can make sure we make good decisions. At least mesa is now doing that with Gateway. There is no rush, and we want to get it right.

clarebear. Uptown has height restrictions, but due to the airport, it can go higher than downtown. If you look at the phx urban form project, the massing in downtown shows that you can go over 700' in some of the areas. However, the airport will have a say on a project over 300'. cityscape is facing that problem right now. Uptown is a different cat. You can ask for variances and so forth to get additional height in uptown, but you have different obstacles in uptown than downtown. The reason is due to single family housing beings so close. If you look on emporis web site, you can see the tallest proposal was the phoenix tower at 1,693 ft. or 114 stores. Toll brothers has a proposal for 658 ft or 50 stores. That is in the uptown area. Just think , if cityscape gets its proposal approved, and built, it will have the tallest building in AZ.

I think most of these projects/proposals are going to get scrached due to the market. Wait for light rail to open, see how succesful it is and how the local market responds arond light rail. If it is positive, you will see more developments that will add to the valleys weak skyline. If you look at Tempe, you know over half will not be built by the the estimated projection. Also, in the area, it seems like each proposal has a hotel associated with it. It seems like there are too many proposals for hotels in the tempe area right now. also, with light rail, you will start to see cities codes and zoning ordanices reflecting the desire to build up in these areas. Some have already done that, and others are in the process or thinking about it.

And I am not trying to attack anyone, but the above info is some good stuff on what New Urbanism is all about. These are the founding principles back in the early 90's when CNU was organized.

I would not consider a 27 year thing a fad. Bradsp makes some solid points on what it is. Well I think some in here have not educated themselves on the principles of what New Urbanism is all about. People such as Inkdaub. Go and look at CNU and research the principles. I will agree, it is not perfect and does not address all of the cities problems, but it does address many. In the suburbs, you can have new urbanism thrive. Look at places such as kentlands, verrado, stapleton and see how they integrate with suburbia and bring back traditional community building principles. Truly look at the design of these places (a tract home development vs. a New Urbanism development) Inkdaub and you will see the differences. Here is the