jcrc
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Posts posted by jcrc
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TIMETABLE
Anticipated construction start: 2008
Anticipated completion date: 2014
6 years? I think BBS took about 2, is the scope of this project so much larger?
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My half baked proposal:
City/State should both evaluate their current leases and arange to move as many workers to colt as possible. Colt would cut the state a slight brake on the lease in order to have valuable leases signed.
These leases would improve the credit worthiness of the project.
Webster bank would be used to re-finance in some kind of sweetheart deal like they work when the state/city are behind the project.
Homes for America Holdings uses the loan to push the project forward and get the 10M state grant they are needing right now.
As people move into the offices over the next 2 years due to the above deal, the residential units will begin to lease out and even a few retail spots open due to the increased usefullness of the site.
This should put the project into safe zone and really the only change is that the city/state hand money in the form of a lease to a developer rather than a cronie.
Why should the city and state government show such favoritism? Using your logic, then the state and city should have evaluate their food service and event contracts and give as many to Joe Black and other failing eateries as possible. As of this fall, over a third of City Place II will be vacated by Met Life, whose workers are we going move there to save Larry G? It just doesn't work this way. State and city contracts should be put out to bid in the most transparent fashion so the tax payers get their money's worth.
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Someone mentioned Brooks Brothers awhile ago.Nice job.... I sent an e-mail to Nitkin once, but surprise-surprise, no reply. Has even ONE actual retail name been put out there except ESPN and Toad's? Pathetic.
It will go from park to parking in no time.Make it a park for now I guess........... -
Downtown Middletown is great - the feel is much more authentic than West Hartford Center. My friends and I often drive there to walk around and eat.
While you are in Middletown be sure to visit my friend Neal at Java Palooza. I think if the town narrow the main street and slow down the traffic will make Middletown much more pedestrian friendly. Other than that I agree with you about the authentic feeling of the place. If you want to visit a real nice place try Northampton, Mass.
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So until housing is added - if ever, what will be on th site? hmmm....surface lot?The only silver lining to not including housing at this time would be that by filling most of the site with entertainment/retail space, the only housing that could fit on what's left will be towers if/when housing is ever added. I do have doubts though, that we will ever see any housing in that part of Downtown if it's not built now with this development. -
try this linkI know there are more, I am just not sure where to find them -
So until there's a huge will to create a Newbury St. in Hartford...
Having Tiffany or Versace in Hartford is totally wishful thinking. Having indies that made Newbury Street charming is not impossible. We just need a lot of residents with disposable income, an accommodating city hall, realistic rent, and no must open 7 day a week nonsense dedicated by landlord who is clueless about retail (somehow I think this is face saving BS by Northland to excuse themselves from their inability to rent the damn place, but I am the trustworthy type). Now back to your regular scheduled reality.
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The apartments and condos in Hartford are too expensive for most young professionals. The need is not $1,400 one bedroom. We need $800 - $900 one bedroom apartments. We need public and private incentives to encourage people to live in Hartford. If we don't have at least 5,000 downtown residents, we can have the swankiest arena with the most outlandish luxury boxes in the country and on non-event day/night, Hartford will still be dead.jcrc - I think that is exactly correct. But there have been some steps to remedy that situation. A new HCC would also help in attracting a bigger crowd to the CBD. -
Not quite true, Hartford hasn't lost that much population (especially downtown), probably around 10 to 12 thousand since 1980. Once Sage Allen and G. Fox closed the rest of the retail went with them (first to West Hartford then Manchester and beyond). Now every suburb competes with its neighbor. Hartford needs to be unique to attract shoppers again, maybe trendy, or more upscale. There are plenty of people the work in Hartford to support more retail. It has nothing to do with population, Glastonbury with a population of a little over 30K has retail Hartford dreams of. Granted the income is much higher, most of them probably work in Hartford. I think it's giving people a reason to venture out of their buildings, but retailers don't want to be the first to venture into a new area, especially one that has struggled in the past, they much rather open up somewhere safe, and I can't really blame them... Hartford used to be the shopping mecca, hopefully with mass transit being developed and projects like the science center, convention center front street and a new arena Hartford has the tools to compete again...
Hartford population:
1980: 136,392
1990: 139,739
2000: 121,578
2003 estimate: 124,387
In downtown area, I think the population is less than 2,000. 2K in Hartford vs. 30K in Glastonbury, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where to put a shop.
There are about 60,000 office workers, I think that peaked at 100,000. Obviously if downtown workers can support more retail, then Hartford would have more retail shops. Unfortunately office workers cannot keep most retailers in business. Office workers are great for coffee and sandwich shop, but not for book store, gift shop, jewelry store, art gallery, grocery store....If you look at NYC's financial district where tons of people work there, on weekends that too is a ghost town, and that too has very little retail.
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There should even be a building code requiring at least 5 stories with retail on the ground floor within the CBD.
That will just create a large supply of retail square footage without a corresponding increase in demand, i.e. no increase in shopper. Once upon a time Hartford had a lot of retail shops. They went away went residents moved out and malls opened. Hartford's problem is not lack of retail store front, it is lack of shopper.
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I do not think that there is any evidence as yet to any portion of costs being picked up by any given party. lets remember how early on this whole thing is.
But if I were to guess, AEG would be putting up a good amount of the cost and expect a great deal of profit. AEG is interested in this market and has chosen Hartford as its foothold. AEG is an arena development/management company. Northlands primary role is to get a professional sports team and to increase the value of its holdings around the arena.
The city and state wants both of the above and would be thrilled if they got some new construction to tax out of the deal.
If the corporate residents of Hartford want the same, then this is just might happen.
I would be disapointed if the city/state paid for the whole thing and no other lots were developed with private $
When Northland first mentioned a new arena, they suggested total cost is about $400 million, and they were seeking about 75% public financing. While they did say it was their starting position, it suggested heavy public financing.
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He has every right to make out like a bandit, he took bulk of the risk. If Northland also take on bulk of the risk, then they too should have to chance to make out like a bandit. However, if the public sector is to take 75% of the risk, then public sector should take in 75% of the loots. Just trying to be fair instead of the typical connection driven corporate welfare in Hartford.Pollin owns the building an is making out like a bandit.But even if the DC had covered the entire cost of the MCI/Verison Center, it still would have come out ahead. The stadium has led to a building boom and the area is now an economic powerhouse. It turned a dormant part of the city into one of the liveliest neighborhoods in Washington.
In fact, the only reasonable conclusion that could come from studying the Verison Center is that building an arena is a must. No matter how you get it done, it enhances the life of the city and more than pays for itself.
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Can someone explain why Civic Center with AHL = $42 million direct spending and new Arena with AHL = $75 million direct spending? Page 6 of the study. Why would a new arena increase attendance by 78%?
Also, the example given in the study, Verizon Center in DC cost sports team owner Abe Pollin nearly $220 million. The District provided financial assistance in the amount of $70 million for land and site preparation costs. Does that mean Northland should cough up 75% of the cost and public funding should be 25% of the new arena?
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if you go to hartford.gov you can see the feasibility study of the xl center.
That is after they didn't like the recommendation the other group of experts who were against a new arena from a few months back.
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Think of this whole concept more like a car. yes a very expensive car but a car. You own your 1989 Taurus wagon outright. it gets you to work it might complain but it works. maintenance costs have increased over the last few years but you have paid for them out of layalty to your old friend the taurus wagon. your kids have grow up some and they need a little more room in the back seat. not a lot but it would be nice to have. The value of your car might be 1500 if your lucky and it just reached 120000 miles. The 60k tune up is going to cost you 900 dollars and you need brake work too. Is it worth prolonging the death of your old taurus or should you buy a new car with more room and better safety features. At some point the answer is buy new. For Hartford we are at the point of shopping for something new. if you read the article you will see 2013 mentioned quite a few times. I get the feeling the city cant do anything till 2013 without breaking a lease agreement. So for the next 5 years the city is going to work towards getting a new arena planned funded and built. And the cornerstone of this plan is getting a pro team.
So to me this is the city actually planning ahead. and I am impressed.
That is not a valid comparison. For one thing car depreciate in value, real estate appreciate in value. Car is, unfortunately disposable, building can and should be preserved. If upkeep and maintenance cost out weight the cost of a new building (assuming new building has lower cost for upkeeping), then why not tear down Mark Twain House, Wadsworth Atheneum, Old State House (and make surface parking lot as one proposal called for), current gold dome State House and build new one. I mean they are all pretty old. Right?
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All of the things that currently happen at the Civic Center will be more than enough to put a new arena to good use and add the potential for growth opporutnities that the current arena will not. I really don't follow this argument of "what will we use it for?" Maybe I'm missing something, but last I checked the Civic Center is heavily used and on it's last leg, which in my mind makes this time for a new arena. That's what time it needs to be in Hartford. New Arena Time.....
heavily use as Chicago Stadium(1929-1994)? Boston Garden(1928-1995)? I thought the reason for a new arena is because the current one is under used and cannot attract top tier venues (even though Civic Center gets similar things KC's brand new arena gets) due to it's size, lack of luxury box, or whatever inadequacy arena proponents say it lacks. If the place is heavily used, I would think the shops inside would still be there.
Most here are all for saving the Mass Mutual building even though the argument for its demolition is because the building is obsolete, but the same people have no problem tearing this one down. I am not sure I understand the logic.
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That number would seem insanely high. Especially since 55 on the Park has an agree with Oakwood, who is one of the the country's largest corporate leases.
If the place is 60% leased, and most are not corporate leases, then don't you think the place should be at least 50% lighted at night? It is not. I drive by there every night at 8pm.
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How many of the units in Hartford 21 are corporate leases with nobody in them on weekends and in some cases whole weeks?
On any given night, I'd say 20% of the units are lighted. Assuming 10% of the units are leased but tenants have not move in, that means about 30% of the units are corporate leases or 50% of the units that were leased. Another way to guestimate it is use the same percentage as Bushnell Park apartment.
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He did not say Hartford should have a seafood market. He said Hartford should have a local products market.
Was in DC just before the new year and went to the Eastern Market (capitol hill neighborhood area). The building was badly damaged by fire and is being reconstructed. Merchants are selling outdoor or in a temp building. Even with pretty steady rain, the place was hopping. My wife and I both thought Hartford could use something like that.
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Trying to get ESPN would be a hopeless cause.
What should be done is... if you can find out someone who wants to start a new television network ... draw them to the site instead. So that way, this network can be directly associated from the beginning as Hartford.
I don't think we are talking about bringing ESPN into Hartford, but ESPN Zone the sport bar.
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Colin is an idiot. Both those markets are on water front property and one of their main selling points is seafood.
Hartford had a great farmers market that was closed for no reason. The farmers market should have returned as soon as the building fell through.
He did not say Hartford should have a seafood market. He said Hartford should have a local products market.
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Has anyone taken a close look at Macfarlane and Homes For America's Holdings? Except for a succesful project in Florida, over 5 years ago, EVERY residential or commercial project they have done from Florida to Texas to New York to Connecticut has failed miserably - and that was in unbelievably good market conditions! They could only get financing under horrible terms from a lender (USA Capital -think Colonial Realty) that is now in bankruptcy and whose relationship with HFAH is under investigation by the FBI. In Connecticut, they recently walked away from the Windham Mills project, leaving it deeper in debt and with some questionable transactions. Meanwhile the Courant looks the other way, as they have been Macfarlane's biggest cheerleader and don't want to look bad and the Governor, CT & Hartford politicians are about to give these guys close to $10 million of taxpayer dollars! They are considering moving State Offices into the facility at worse terms and significant expense to shore up the project. Take a look at what the history of doing that in Hartford has cost CT Taxpayers. Welcome to Connecticut and Hartford Standard Operating Procedure!
Do you have some links for us to look at? I am curious to see how a company stay in business if EVERY residential or commercial project they have done from Florida to Texas to New York to Connecticut has failed miserably.
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What Colin McEnroe wrote makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if Front Street can use that concept because Paradise Village Center is sort on the same track. I would love to see a Pike Street type market featuring mostly local farm products in Hartford.
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how can you comment on the quality when there hasn't been anything built yet? looking at how there is a lot of retail in the suburbs, i see front street having difficulty attracting anybody. If people were lining up to come to hartford, there would be tenants in the H21 retail space. nobody from west hartford is going to drive into hartford on a saturday to shop the 4 stores that will probably be open at front street when they can go to westfarms or bbs.
If they are unique and interesting retailers people will come. The biggest draw will be ESPN. Hopefully the developer can get some non food retailers to pepper around ESPN. Maybe the developer, Hartford and the state can provide some kind of rent subsidy for targeted retailers? That is what Yale did to lure qualify retailers into New Haven.
IN-PROGRESS: Storrs Center
in Connecticut
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I am not sure about there are multiple developers. I thought it's just Leyland. Anyway a 6 year construction period seems long to me.