designcritic
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Posts posted by designcritic
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What happened to the crane?
The building on the left is blocking it.
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I noticed on the highway side they are building concrete columns that mimic the ones on the Michigan St side. Are they also going to have stone added also, on the highway side?
Yes they will. The column bases will eventually be covered with dirt when they remove the access drive and regrade the hill down to the highway.
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It was mainly tongue in cheek, but I've taken classes in buildings with multiple "main floors" and it's irritating. Especially when you're new to the building, on an upper floor, and trying to get back down to the correct "lobby" where you came in. I'm not the only one who feels that way. That's why elevators usually have a STAR next to the main lobby floor if it's not the 1st floor.
The Star on an elevator is the International Symbol for emergency services (Star Of Life). It designates an elevator that is on emergency power and able to fit an ambulance cot.
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From today:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/205/4630714...fdc342f38_b.jpg
I'm guessing those block are for that long vertical section that extends from the roof to the ground floor. It's hard to tell from the rendering, but I believe the "wall" section (
) to the left of my red circle is recessed back a bit.Move your circle left to where the piers are. The piers are what you are seeing in the picture. FYI they have also started the piers on the north side of the building.
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Sweetness!
Is that a waterfall fountain?
Yes, that is a water feature. The water ends in a reflecting pool on the first level.
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From how I view the giant parking ramp, it does not matter to me if the developers included it in the design or not. Beside until a mass transit system more robust than the RAPID bus system is implemented we're kind of stuck with cars for now. However my complaint about the ramp is the same complaint I have for Icon on Bond's ground floor wall. Developers ignored many various options to dress up the street level frontage of the complex to favor the fortress of solitude look. But overall, given the nature of this complex I think it looks presentable. Besides it seems that the Michigan St. side of the parking ramp has level floor decks which puts the ramps in the middle or back back of the structure. Given that Hospitals seem to never stop growing and expanding (well in Spectrum's case at least) could the level portions of the parking deck be converted into other uses sometime in the future?
Even the "level" portions slope to drains so there would still be the issue of trying to make it flat. The floor to floor heights on most levels are also too short to work for other functions. The clear height is about 8' on most levels throughout the deck.
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Changing subjects, do we know where the tunnel from Lemmen Holton is connecting to the main hospital? What building & at what level?
The tunnel is three parking levels below the Cancer Pavilion (about the midpoint of the building in the east/west direction) and will connect to the Children's Hospital. It will not be for public use.
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BTW, I'll bet $50 that the louvers aren't there to provide venting. In fact, if you look at this image, it looks like there are large ventilation shafts between the planters and the wall:
I will PM you my address for the $50. The louvers have a 50% or more openess factor which means that those levels to not need to be mechanically exhausted. The airshaft are for the lower levels. As someone stated, if glass was to replace the louvers more cost would be added to the mechanical system and the structural system to add airshafts and exhaust fans. It's never as simple as it seems. There needs to be positive air movement at every point in the structure. The small entry/exit openings would not provide enough area to accomplish that.
Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is they were originally going to be all brick/concrete walls, and they were "value engineered" down to openings covered with louvers.Nope, it was always planned to be louvers because they are necessary to avoid mechanically exhausing the structure. There was also an alternate to put louvers on the north elevation as well but that alternate was not taken because of the cost and the fact that all the other decks that front I-196 in that area have nothing to screen the structure.
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I find it interesting designcritic that you were the biggest critic of ICON's wall, and yet your wall will look exactly the same. Please elaborate the differences. ICON will have planters and trees out front (and for the record, I too think that wall is horrible).
And you're right, for parking is does not require transparency and it can be screened, and I think that should be changed. I don't know how you read that it is "required". By the way, I have "advised" clients and customers what I "felt" is a better way to do something, and 9 times out of 10 they go with my ideas instead of their own, even if it costs more. Same with the boss (although that's more like 50%).
But I still haven't heard anyone defend the big blank bunker walls other than "it would cost more" and/or "it's not required".
It doesn't matter though. For this and ICON what's done is done. I think a push should be made to have the code changed, and I would hope everyone would join me in that. Then you don't have to go out on a limb (god forbid) and try and convince your client to do the right thing.
I don't have the code in front of me but doesn't it say that the parking needs to be screened?
Look at the detaling on the Icon wall (or lack therof) and the RDV Michigan Street wall. Now you tell me who did the better job of breaking down the mass with relief and various materials. The Icon wall, except for the tiny planters, doesn't change plane an inch in its entire length. It even had the easier job because it had a flat site to work with. I don't think I am the only one that can see there is NO attention to detail on the Icon wall but the Michigan Street wall uses various materials to break down the mass and make it more interesting. There was also the concious effort to extend the materials onto the deck where a tower is present. This makes it look much more like a building than a parking deck. What did Icon do? Oh yeah, they changed the color on the first floor. How innovative. The final product will prove my point.
As for the "it would cost more" defense. You do what you can with the money available and it may not be perfect but it is the best it can be. The ideal would be to have retail/active spaces the entire length but that isn't appopiate or necessary for every piece of property. In addition, it is easily done on a flat site but becomes extremely diffcult on a sloped one like michigan street especially when trying to make it comply with ADA.
No project is perfect and everyone sees it differently. The problem with UP is that everyone is a critic and mostly a harsh one. There are positives to most projects despite the negatives but the only aspects that get repeated over and over again are the negative ones.
The easiest way to get projects built in the most urban friendly way is to change the code. Until that is done the mighty dollar is still going to influence most decisions.
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And in response to your latest post, there are zoning ordinances for a reason. The requirement is 60%, to which RDV Corporation and Christman Companies were given a pass. Try yourself to get the 60% waived on a project of your own Geo. I doubt you'll get it (and you shouldn't).
Rant not ended.
I don't know where you're getting this 60% requirement for parking but you are way off. Please re-read the code to find out what it actually states for parking (it must be screened). There were no "passes" given. Geo would have no problem getting the 60% waived because it doesn't apply to parking. These projects as well as ICON didn't even need a vaiance to do what they did. It is allowed and almost required.
Sorry Captain Planet, that was my fault, and thanks for clearing up the miscommunication. Just because some of us want downtown Grand Rapids to be the best city it can be does not make us "tree huggers". There is a fine art to making an urban area vibrant and inviting, which is not applicable in the suburban environment. And it does not require a tremendous amount more in investment. In fact, by getting rid of the planters and brick detailing on this project, and replacing the blank walls with glass, you're most of the way there.But most architects and designers know this. I just think they are afraid to hold the line with the client. The client is not always right (I know people will cringe, but it's true).
Peace and I'll drop it for a while.
So let me get this straight. You are advocating getting rid of the planters and detailing that help break down the scale of the building. The planters will greatly soften the transition from sidewalk to ramp and they would be missed if eliminated. The entire concrete parking structure has been given a more detailed look on the south elevation to help with scale and give it a more finished look. There is no visible concrete and instead they used planters, brick, decorative lighting, and louvers. Heck, they should have saved the money on all of that and the glass you request and just left it a concrete parking deck. That way you could see into it and it would be completely inviting. How do you think that would fly? You are advocating replacing a $5sf louver system with a $30sf curtainwall system. Please tell me how that is cheaper? If you need an address to send the check for the cost of the desired improvements let me know.
"Afraid to hold the line with the client" Give me a break. "The client is not always right" They may not be right but for some reason the guy paying the bills seems to have a lot of pull. Unless you are Frank Gehry or a few others the Architect does not get to do whatever he wants. The Architect could "hold the line" and tell the client "he isn't right" and then he can guaranteee that it will be the last project with that client. I think you should go tell your boss (the guy paying the bills) how to run his business. Do you think he will do whatever you want or will he weigh your opinion against many other factors and decide what works best for HIM, HIS business, and HIS money?
I think all of us want the best designed bulding that we can get. But, that is in the eye of the beholder and there are 50 variables other than aesthetics that need to be weighed. If you add one thing you usually need to eliminate something somewhere else. Finding the right balance is very difficult and it is never going to please everyone.
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Yeah, that should be the footprint of the building. There's not room to go any further west there...
That is the correct place for the school. There is one more level of parking to be built and then the plaza/first floor level on top of that.
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Duh. You know that's the third or fourth time I've said "arena" instead of "institute". Yes, the institute's ground floor on both Bostwick and on Division are completely blank walls. How was a variance granted for these?
Per code anyone can build a blank wall without a variance. Ground floor uses are "encouraged" but that's it. In fact, per the code, if you have parking you pretty much have to build a blank wall in order to screen it. The only way it's ever going to change is to change the code to "require" ground floor uses but then the developers will scream that they can't fill the spaces.
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What's the proper designation for this tower, by the way?
Tower 25
My favorite, the RDV Parking "Dagwood" Sandwich. 2000 parking spaces and still not enough to meet the demands on Health Hill. What is a city to do?(everything in red is parking)
There are actually 2300 spaces and still not enough.
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Is Tower 25 the one that needs to be completed before the Towers Building can be knocked over?
Yes, then the middle section of parking deck can be built with Tower 35 on top of it. The numbers relate to the future address designations.
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Jonathan Bailey is the lead, I wonder who is the local (architect) on this? The spire from base to tip is 318', we know that much.
They are the Architect for the project and aren't teaming up with anyone local for that aspect. The MEP is being handled by URS.
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Do you mean "start 2 levels below" because of the steep grade of Michigan hill, or that 2 floors' worth of offices will be underground?
The first floor of the LHCP is at the Coit Street elevation. The plaza level and first floors of the three west towers are two parking levels lower at about the Boswick elevation which is about where the white car is. There are no occupied spaces below grade except for circulation spaces.
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If all of the RDV buildings are close to the size of the new Cancer Center, this development is going to look enormous.
Joe
The first floors of the other buildings start two levels below that of the LHCP. Thus, even though all of the buildings are roughly the same height the LHCP will appear two stories taller.
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I am guessing that the gray steel will be for some exterior screen wall. The main building steel did not get painted because it all gets fireproofing applied to it.
Close. The top steel is for the screen wall but it's not painted, it's galvanized.
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Hello, what's this?
Temporary enclosure.
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As I'm seeing the structure of this development growing and comming together, I'm begining to think that this addition to the GR skyline will look alot bigger than what any rendering shows.
The overall renderings are very deceiving because the site is 1060 feet long. Because of the proportions everything looks shorter.
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I was noticing the curb that goes all the way around the drop-off area by Michigan Street there. Is there going to be an entrance to the cancer center from Michigan, or will all the traffic come in and out off Coit in order to take advantage of the traffic light at the corner?
There will be no entrance at this corner from Michigan Street. All of the traffic will come from Coit and the circle drive is a drop-off area.
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Nice sparky! I really can't get over how complicated this project looks. I pretty much thought it would be like the Meijer Heart Center and just an upscale medical office building, but apparently not. What are those large orange things in the bottom left of the picture? Anyone? It looks like the building has its own power plant.
The orange things are the formwork for the rather deep conc. beams that support the vehicular drop off area.
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Thanks for the info designcritic! Not knowing what a linear accelerator was, I looked it up:
Are there any others like this in West Michigan? I see in a google search it looks like there are ones at MSU, Henry Ford Hospital and U of M?
I don't know where others might be but there are five of them in the Cancer Pavilion.
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I thought we were going to see steel on Lemmen Holton by now?
Continuing to backfill the massive UG parking garage:
The first picture shows the mass of concrete surrounding the linear accelerators. At some points it is 7'-0" thick. There is also 8" of solid steel in the floor and 4" in the ceiling. The structural steel should begin to rise the second week of December.
The second picture shows them creating a pad for a material staging area.
From today:
) to the left of my red circle is recessed back a bit.
Medical Mile/Michigan Street Developments
in Grand Rapids
Posted
The steel has started to go up on the Med School.