[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

3 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Hmmm, can't really move our time zone. That seems to be a pretty big barrier. 

Its possible:

 

Under Federal law, there are two ways in which an area in the United States can be moved from one time zone to another: By statute: Congress may enact a statute changing the time zone. By regulation: The Secretary of Transportation may issue regulations making changes.

[Project Thread/New Construction/Photo du jour/Const. CAMs]

22 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

The online Tennessean posts slide shows from decades past. This month includes photos from May 1964. Here's one I found fascinating with the caption that was included for the picture in the print edition.

Drane Harrison, left, display manager for Cain-Sloan Co., surveys the location of the 100,000-seat sports arena

proposed for Nashville as Irving Hand of the Metro Planning Commission, explains details using a scale model

on May 28, 1964. The model is part of a detailed exhibit of Nashville's future on display in the old Loveman’s building.

Jack Corn / The Tennessean

I bet if we dusted off this stadium deal it would still has a better shot than the Ritz at the rate it's going.

[The Westin Music City - 27 Floors/320', 452 Rooms]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:46 AM, Auntie Yock said:

You're looking at one. I enjoyed visiting the rotating restaurant in the '70s, the Polaris Room. Had a unique view of downtown.

I walked by there one day and asked them why the restaurant closed and they said there was not enought elavators to keep the restaurant open and get guest to their rooms quick enouht.  I think they said they had hoped to get another elevator installed but I have not been by recently to confirm, but I do beieve it can still be rentred for events.  

[The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread]

14 hours ago, BNAfan said:

I can provided my own anecdotal evidence to the contrary.  I drive through there every weekday 7:30-8:00.  I see several commuters on bikes, including 4 this morning when it was 30 degrees.  There are also daily commuters on bikes on Belmont and on the Music Row corridors. E-bikes have really made a difference, as well, in the number of  commuters.

Bike lanes are also a better solution for scooter riding. I have never understood why the revenue from scooter permits/fines/etc are not tied to bike lane construction.  

So if my math is right, 4 bikers equals roughly 2 cars.  Would anybody have voted to build that elaborate bike lane system to eliminate two cars during probably the busiest half hour of the day?  I just wonder if the people in some neighborhoods who have paid city taxes for decades and still don't have sidewalks would have favored it.

[The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread]

4 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

First and foremost, I have nothing against bikes or those that enjoy using them. But they will never in America, be an alternative form of transportation. And I mean  as a general form for the masses, it will not be the choice for most people that decide to not drive cars. I’m not saying that proper infrastructure should not be incorporated, especially within the core of major cities. But we aren’t going to be seeing bike lanes running parallel to every single street throughout this city or any other. Just as we’re not going to see daily commuters hopping on bikes and riding 15-20 or more miles into downtown to go to work. The fact of adverse weather alone, will make that a non existent element along with the time to do such things. So while I agree that yes , there’s a need and a justification to have bike lanes available in the city and the safety of bikers is just as vital as any other , the municipalities have to weigh their budgets to fund what infrastructure needs will benefit the larger majority of its population 

I think we agree on bikes.  I worked downtown for years and have driven Uber part-time for years.  During that time I don't recall every seeing a bike  on one of the core business district  bike lanes and maybe 5 or 6 on any bike lane.     Take 12th Ave for example.  I have yet to see a bike in that new bike lane with the huge concrete curb that seperate bike lane and road, but I have seen a pedestrian fall trying to cross them.  Also if you see the tires marks that have hit those curbs and the huge chunks of the contrete that have been knocked out already,  its a blessing no bikes were on them, not to mention the damages to cars that has been caused.  I hate to imagine the nightmares coming for the poor folks on Nolensville road.  I wouldn't get in a bike lane on Nolensville road if I had 9 lives, but that's just me. 

[Nashville Yards, 15 acres/4 million sq. ft./ $1 billion, Phase I: Grand Hyatt Hotel (25 stories), Phase II: Amazon (26 & 22 stories), Phase III: AEG District (4 K theater, 34 & 35 story apts); Phase IV: Pinnacle Tower (35 stories), Amazon 3 (43)]

I'm sure we're all gonna be really surprised how well Pinnacle turns out, but right now, with 6 floors to go, their old building has a lot more impact on the skyline.

[Rutledge Hill Towers (37 story 200 room hotel/100 condos; 21 story 125 room hotel/100 condos; 17 story 154 apts; 97,500 sq. ft. retail area 2 level grocery store; 5 level 777 capacity underground garage; repurpose five 125-year-old homes to restaurants)]

13 minutes ago, nashville born said:

Anyone know if this proposal has come before Metro yet?

Absolutely stunning.  Whether it gets approved or not, just stunning.

Yes, here is the new rendering with the height reductions:)

[Nashville International Airport PHOTOS (BNA), Airlines and Flights General discussion]

3 hours ago, nashville born said:

Not saying it's a bona fide fix, yet metro needs to patrol  and blue light cars that tuck in along the route to await passengers.  That would help ease a little of the congestion and spur more usage of the cellphone lot.  We've seen it in other cities.  Philly does it regularly and the ramps into and out of PHL stay clear.  And the cellphone lot (which admittedly is much closer than  3.5 miles) stays mostly filled.

I drive Uber on the weekends and if they are not blue lighting whey you are there it is because they have burned the bulbs out from doing it all day:).  They are gonna have to start writing tickets that sting to keep people from stopping everywhere and waiting.  

[Nashville Bits and Pieces]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Can this be because of the “ Great divide “ that is taking place in our country? Whereas all those above mentioned cities trend more towards the right and cities such as Nashville and most Northern and California cities trend towards the left. Causing a shift and migration for those seeking a more comfortable political environment , based on their beliefs. ie: those who believe that places such as California have become to left leaning for them , but still want city life. And places such as Nashville appealing for those that want a warmer climate but don’t wish to live in red rural Tennessee. Just a thought, not a opinion and not singling out any particular group 

I talk to a lot of people moving here from California and west in general but they are saying they moving here for  the convenience of Nashville but wanting to live in the red counties.  This 2022 growth map sort of supports that as you see close to 35,000 moving to the red counties around Nashville and just under 5k actually moving into blue Davidson county.

[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

2 hours ago, Baronakim said:

Projecting the design into the river is a dumb pipe dream.  I suspect that there would be major ecological constraints about totally build in on the existing banks.  Also, since baseball has a very large schedule of games, I would think the disruptions of major league games on the academic campus would be detremental to the university itself.  This is a great deal different from the impact of just a university baseball facility.  Adding an entertainment venue is even worse.  A fully commercial venue like this on a publicly funded state institution's land is ludicrious. Why not just use emminent domaian and take out all the land used for surface parking at vanderbilt and build it there (sarcasm)?  

 

Completely agree.  We can't become serious contenders for a team until this location is removed from contention.  Getting to it will be a disaster.  Someone mentioned mass transit, but we don't have mass transit now.  So if people think there is no appetite to use public funds for the stadium, I seriouly doubt there is an appetite to spend more than the stadium would cost to build a train line to it.  (Why not just build the stadium where people would park to get on the train?  Downtown)

[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Here is the coverage from The Post:

Poll of MLB players: Nashville should get expansion team | Baseball | nashvillepost.com

The problem is going to be infrastructure cost related to any stadium. Metro is not going to fund anything right now and the new ownership of said stadium will have to pick up the cost of everything as I think the taxpayers are fed up right now. Maybe the state will fund the MLB stadium, but anything at the TSU site will be off the tables as there will be tons of infrastructure cost involved and the new mayor ever who that is will be involved in this.

Good luck finding the money to make this happen to whomever decides to bring a team here.

I think you are right about funding being a tough sell  for the next 5 years.  They should target 10 years when the new dome is completed and has a  track record of capacity crowds at a wide variety of premier events which would mean it's covering its debt.  You'll also have another 50,000 plus in the Davidson county tax base and totally redifined skyline as a backdrop from multiple locations.  Plus there will be another 100,000 plus in Rutherford/Williamson County  area (which combined will probably be bigger than Davidson County) if you need to look at the I-840 corridor.  The next 5 years may be too soon as mentioned, but in 10 years, another group will be buliding a stadium if this group can't get it done.   

[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

On 5/4/2023 at 5:41 PM, jmtunafish said:

The Bleacher Report yesterday ranked its top cities for MLB expansion.  They have Nashville ranked as #1.

1. Nashville
2. Charlotte
3. Montreal
4. Portland OR
5. Salt Lake City
6. Vancouver
7. Mexico City

I particularly like the picture of Nashville's skyline that headlines the article.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10074381-ranking-the-7-most-likely-destinations-for-mlbs-next-city-after-as-to-vegas-move

I agree that they have to find a way to get that city view if they want to be successful or even get a team to start with.  I understand they would get a good deal on the land behind TSU, but that land locked locaton with the undeveloped river area as a back drop is simply going to fail if it ever gets started.  I can't be convienced that area will get them a team and if somehow by grace they did, it will fail.   81 games is a lot to get people on  mass scale to that part of town which is so far from your Metro population base.  Davidson County has 708, 000 with the majority south of I-40 and then you have 622,000 in just Rutherford and Williamson counties.    I may be wrong, but I just can't wrap my head around not haveing it on the river downtown or between there and I-840.  

[New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)]

3 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

OK, I’ll say it…. Jville gets a far cooler looking stadium for half the price of the Titans’! But a renovation of Nissan isn’t feasible?

Having been to over 200 Titans games and several of them having been in Jacksonville, I can promise one thing.  There will be a clear and decisive winner in the battle of adding a roof on to a stadium with a 30 plus year old infrastructure VS a new new state of the art dome designed  specifically for football and concerts.  And that's coming from someone who will probably get priced out of my season tickets, but  I would rather catch a few games a year in the dome. than 8 or 9 in a relic. 

[ONE22ONE, 25 stories, 356', 357,000 sq. ft. office space, 6,700 q. ft. ground floor retail]

On 5/27/2023 at 8:46 AM, Argo said:

And that would be 5 to 15 more floors they would have to pay for with high interest rates with bleak prospects of obtaining tenants. This isn't monopoly money these development firms are borrowing.

My bad, thought we were talking about the game.

[ONE22ONE, 25 stories, 356', 357,000 sq. ft. office space, 6,700 q. ft. ground floor retail]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:00 PM, KJHburg said:

today near where I parked. 

I know this has been said many times, but even though I love this building, it's hard to believe how much more impact it would have had with addition helghth.  Even 5 more floors would have made it stand out in that area., but 10 or 15 more and it could have been a crown jewel.

[Nashville International Airport Development thread]

Here is a picture I took from the departure lane at BNA friday night of the new Hilton Hotel progress.

 

[Nashville Bits and Pieces]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:47 AM, glamdring269 said:

Certainly different but we also know that Ascend has to shutdown by a certain time. I was just basically trying to understand the difference in why Ascend has to shut off but Nissan Stadium does not.

I think I remember reading, it was part of the deal to put Ascend there that they have to turn it off by 11pm because you have condos and hotels so close.  Nissan, while you can hear it, is much further away from most residences and can be tuned out with a fan or somthing like chc3 said.  La Quinta might say different, but they came after the stadium.  The hotels and condo's were there before Ascend.

[New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)]

18 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

I am fine with no retractable roof. It is a waste of money to heat or cool the venue every time you decide to close it up again. Just keep the temp constant. Besides if it is going to be as bust as they say, there will be no need to open it up.

Lucas Oil Stadium has only been open for 25% of its games.

Lucas Oil Stadium roof: Colts owner Jim Irsay says it will be open (indystar.com)

 

NNNRG Stadium in Houston has only been open 5 times since 2014 and Dallas fans always complain that their stadium is only open once or twice a year at most plus Arizona went 76 games without opening theirs.  I think it would be a waste of money here with the heat, humidity and rain.  

[New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)]

2 hours ago, nashvylle said:

I've been following the renovation status of some of Nissan Stadium's comparable facilities. When half of the comparable facilities are domes and the others are doing a renovation approaching $1BN each, thank God our general fund is not in the stadium renovation business anymore. 

- Cleveland just announced a potential renovation,  approaching $1BN!!, and will not include a roof or dome. 

- Jaguars are contemplating a roof more expansive than Hard Rock Stadium and cover every seat, with renovation estimates coming in the $600MM to $1BN range. 

- Cincinnati is debating a renovation that would cost $500MM - $700MM. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-redone-stadium-could-cause-temp-move

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/02/15/where-do-jacksonville-mayoral-candidates-stand-on-jaguars-stadium-renovations-heres-what-they-said/

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/hamilton-county-officials-say-building-new-bengals-stadium-isnt-out-of-question-amid-renovation-discussions/QUR43LGPRBFJPFMCIVIFUOITCM/

 

 

The Jaguars stadium is the7th oldest in NFL.  Can't imagine paying  a lot for tickets there, and still having no AC and all the stadiums amenitites from 1995.  

[Nashville International Airport Development thread]

1 hour ago, Sean blackdog said:

Today this morning from Facebook. 
Lot of half million tons crowds. 

Just for fun, look at Nashville hotels for May 5-7.  They are approaching $500 for interstate  rooms in Smyrna.  

[Project Thread/New Construction/Photo du jour/Const. CAMs]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:32 AM, chc3 said:

I wish AT&T would remove that ugly corporate logo. A friend and I were discussing that when we looked at it on Sunday. Or maybe just leave the globe.

Just curious as to what would the benefit be for them to remove their corporate logo?  I would sorta like to see more companies doing it (but maybe with more style). I think the L&C tower logo remains one of the best things about the Nashville skyline.

[New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:17 PM, Bos2Nash said:

All good man. 

I like the identity of the stadium district. I think having that anchored there is great draw. My logic just was that it is not needed to make the area valuable. Ultimately, a stadium deal will get done and I think the Titans are not going anywhere. To me though, from a planning and urbanist approach, the new location is plain bad. I still think the "neighborhood" should be on the east side of the stadium to better connect with the neighborhood and keep the "entertainment" on the west side of the river with the exception of the stadium. Logistically it is a much harder project, but IMHO it is a better plan for the city. 

To me though, there are just too many unanswered questions that do leave a fair amount of burden on taxpayers. I have no problem paying a little more for things, but when billionaires are involved, I want to minimize that burden. I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city. If this was a known burden on the tax payers that may even go over a bit better, but the actual burden is a giant "?" and in reality the burden could dramatically grow if something was to happen. Here is another HYPOTHETICAL scenario. Say the state pettiness continues for years and they target the $500 million tax subsidy on the stadium. While they could not back out of the contract itself (their bill for MCC proved this is not allowed), but they come in and try to stipulate that the Sports Authority cannot put money away in savings for future expenditures and then something catastrophic happens. Where does that money come from? The general fund is going to have to protect that, because the Titans backstop is never supposed to be touched. The variables of our petty state government needs to be considered now because of their dumb politics. 

The state wants to take control of the Airport and the Sports Authority, well then they should shoulder the most burden for the investments. Let the state carry the $700 million in bonds and then Metro can carry a $500 million sales tax deferment. 

"I will gladly pay some extra tax for better schools, get transit, sidewalks, bike lanes things that would allow Nashville to grow beyond just a mediocre SE city."  -   

I don't think Nashville mediocre SE city.  but rather one of the premier SE cities.  The Titans and Predators are some of the reasons we are premier.   However, I drive a ton in Nashville as most of you do and I can go weeks in Nashville and never see a bike in the bike lanes.  

[Nashville Bits and Pieces]

2 hours ago, MontanaGuy said:

I was surprised by a poll on WKRN.  It asks the question "Should state lawmakers pass bills to punish Nashville?"  If you vote it will tell you the current poll numbers.  I voted no but I see that the numbers are Yes 72%, No 28%.  I wouldn't have expected the public to have such a hostile attitude towards Nashville.

The hostile attitude is not neccessarily towards Nashville but the group perceived to have hurt Nashville by voting against the RNC.  Very poorly worded question, but they meant for it to be.  Polls and headlines are there to gererate clicks and chatter.  

[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

6 hours ago, markhollin said:

In regards to First Horizon being  converted to MLB standards:

1) I still say that huge revisions would need to be made to the neighborhood in order for an another level of luxury suites and an upper deck to be added. These would include closing Jr. Gilliam Way (formerly Jackson St.); razing at least the SE portion of Carillon Apartments (which just opened 6 years ago); razing Von Elrod's; razing or greatly altering the Sounds retail building that was just opened 2 years ago.  All of these feature long-term tenants and would involve lots of litigation.  And please don't use the Fenway Park argument for workarounds---no MLB ownership is going to want to sacrifice premium seating behind home plate. Fenway is a unique situation built on 110 years of history in a completely land-locked footprint.  If Bosox ownership were starting from scratch, they would NEVER choose a site like that. 

2)  The owners of the MLB franchise would most certainly want to create and/or partner with other developers on a baseball village full of retail & restaurants.  This would entail them buying up several other tracts in the neighborhood.  Ones that come to mind include: a) the State Capitol Service Center and surface lot along 5th Ave. North just to the west of the ballpark; b) the SP+ surface lot on NW corner of Jr. Gilliam Way and 3rd Ave. North; c) the Bekry surface lot on NE corner of Jr. Gilliam Way and 3rd Ave. North; d) The Caliber Collision/Premier surface lot at SE corner of Jr. Gilliam Way and 3rd Ave. North; and e) the Von Elrod's, DeSanto's Pizza,  Geist House/Sports Bar site just north of the stadium.  Whether any or even some of them are willing to sell would be a big issue, and if they do, there will be hefty price tags.

3) Even though First Horizon has a somewhat decent footprint/foundation, my guess is to increase the capacity from 10,000 to at least 35,000 along with all the bells & whistles associated with a modern MLB park/village will still be in the $1.25 billion range.

4) As Smeags mentioned, there would need to be at least triple the parking that is currently available in the area.  I would think that internal/underground garages could be part of the Ballpark Village concepts surrounding the stadium. 

5) The ever-growing residential community within a mile in each direction will most likely have some say (mostly negative) about the traffic flow in/out of the neighborhood for a minimum of 82 games per year.  The closest freeway intersection is 3/4 of a mile away with 3 traffic lights; the other 3 closet are at least 1.3 miles away, each with numerous traffic lights/stop signs. 

All of these elements could certainly be addressed, but would take more money than I think is being considered here. 

Additionally, should a MLB Ballpark be built elsewhere in Nashville, and First Horizon be left empty (any dreams of it being used for another minor league team, or new home for Vandy baseball, or converted into another soccer stadium are just not realistic), it could be razed  and then the land would fetch a pretty nice price tag from a developer that could help recoup  a decent chunk of the cost to build it in the first place.  First Horizon has been open for 8 seasons now (believe it or not) and has generated a ton of tax money and pay-down on its cost.  It would most likely be another 3-4  seasons (at least) as a minor league home before a major league franchise were to replace it in the city, so that would be more summers of income generation to pay down the debt.  Would be interesting to know what that debt figure currently is. 

Back in 2019, there were several articles about First Horizon and the fact it could not be expanded to support MLB.  I searched and did not find the exact article., but it listed severl reasons and that is why First Horizon that has been a no go since day one. 

I did find this one article that recapped it:  https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/10/01/potential-nashville-mlb-ballpark-renderings-released/#:~:text=The market is currently home,expanded to meet MLB standards.

From article:  The market is currently home to a successful Minor League Baseball franchise in the Nashville Sounds (Class AAA; Pacific Coast League), and all indications have been that the club’s First Horizon Park cannot be expanded to meet MLB standards.

[Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:32 PM, MLBrumby said:

That looks like it would be very tough to get in/out of on gameday. 

I am trying to think of another stadium anywhere as  land locked and inaccessible as this location would be.  Geodis Park looks easy to get to comparably from a map.  I just can't help but think with 600,000 plus people in Rutherford and Williamson counties alone (and probably closer to 800k easily by 1st pitch in a new stadium) that you have to be closer.   You have basically one option besides I-40 which is Clarksville Pike and getting there to cross the river is way out of the way to probably at least 90% of the people who would attend.  I not saying you have to make it easy for everyone to get to, because you can't.  I am just saying don't make it hard for everyone to get to.