cutlervillegr
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Posts posted by cutlervillegr
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7 hours ago, joeDowntown said:
Yeah, I think we could do well with a second tier sport, and hope that it grows in popularity. Arena Football always seemed interesting to me, and I thought the Rampage had the coolest logo of most sports teams. Current Major League sports want the biggest markets and the flashiest stadiums. Heck, even MLS (soccer), which is a tier below the big three sports leagues would be impossible to get in this market as they want big cities with flashy stadiums.
I agree with others, I think it will be something on the Amway owned lot.
I think this is a great idea, and much more realistic than attracting a team from one of the Big 4 leagues (will not happen in GR).
If you look at the other cities that have NLL teams, they are comparable to Grand Rapids. (Rochester, Hamilton, Albany, etc). The league does not have any teams in the MidWest, so GR would be a good location. And it's reasonably close to the teams around Lake Ontario, for some close-ish rivals. VAA would be decently sized for a lacrosse league.
One thing that matters is youth lacrosse. I think it's much bigger on the East Coast than here. That helps for attendance...
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As someone who drives that stretch of M-37 every weekday, I can confirm that this is badly needed. There was an accident just this afternoon north of 84th Street -- and that's a pretty common occurrence. I'd be curious to see the accident volumes on the stretch between 68th and 92nd.
The stretch of M-37 between M6 and Hastings is growing rapidly. Even Patterson Ave has seen a big uptick in traffic at rush hour. Last summer, MDOT upgraded M37 from 92nd to Middleville, including some better turn lanes and a traffic light at Crane Rd. I'm guessing by the time the widening is complete between 76th and 92nd, we'll be discussing the need to expand this through Caledonia village to the county line.
This isn't to say Wilson Ave doesn't need this, also...
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I don't know much about the land (whether it is contaminated or not). Would this be a good candidate for some residential in-fill? Some high density housing could definitely fit in here; the area to the East and South is already the Godwin Heights neighborhood.
I think the footprint is a little small for a Tesla factory, and it's been sitting for many years without any industrial development. Maybe a candidate for re-zoning?
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On 9/5/2021 at 11:11 AM, joeDowntown said:
I like the idea of temporary closures (like weekends, etc). I’d just hate to close it down for good, realize it did more harm than good, and put a road in 15 years later.
Joe
Check out the Buffalo Main Street Mall for reference. A pedestrian road that killed all the business on the street. So now they are bringing back the cars to try and stimulate growth.
And yes, they had an at-grade subway along that street, so rapid transit + no cars did not equal success.
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21 hours ago, MJLO said:
Ok so I've figured out how to use the census reporter tool that shows commuting patterns between counties and MSA's etc. The most recent data only goes to 2018. I must be reading the data wrong. Not only does it show Barry County with enough commuters to be included in the GR MSA (28.9%) It shows that more people commute to Kent from Barry for work vs. folks who both live and work in Barry County. Additionally the 2018 numbers show the strongest commuting percentage to date between the counties. Similar results when I look at Newaygo County, with 29.5% of their workforce commuting into Kent. Both Ionia and Montcalm Counties have more than 30% of their workforces commuting into Kent County which is greater than their core employment bases.
Almost half of Muskegon's workforce stays with in it's county, however in 2018 17.6% commuted into Ottawa, and 14.5% commuted into Kent. Together that's 32.1% of Muskegon County's workforce commuting into the two core counties of the GR MSA.
Allegan County is even more confusing. Only 28.3% of it's workforce lives and works there. 22.5% commute into Kent, and 19% commute into Ottawa county. That's a total of 41% of it's workforce commuting into the GR MSA. Though like Muskegon neither county has 25% of a commute so that may have something to do with it.
That still doesn't explain Barry and Newaygo not being added into the core metro, the only difference between them, Montcalm, and Ionia is that both the latter have more than 30% commuting in. So I'm wondering if there's a margin of error they are not showing, and if the cross commute could fall below 25% with the MOE they perhaps do not include the county into the core metro. Still every year it shows a strengthening of commuting patterns for Barry and Kent, which means there was a lower percentage of workers commuting from Barry County into Kent when it was included in 2013.
Either way Ottawa County's commute into Kent stands at about 38% of it's workforce. There's little if any chance of the two being statistically separated in the next alignment.
If anyone has insight as to how these decisions are made please feel free to share. As of right now it makes no sense why Barry and Newaygo counties aren't included in the metro, and I'm pretty confused on Allegan too.
The 2023 alignment could have a GR MSA with 1.5million people, or 950k the the margins of error are perfectly aligned.
Driving down M-37 at rush hour will tell you that there is a strong amount of Kent/Barry traffic occurring. The Middleville-Hastings corridor has definitely seen some strong population growth that should continue.
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CSX is moving more towards interchanging with Short Lines (Tier 2 or 3 rail companies). Essentially, CSX doesn't want to switch out factories or individual businesses -- they want the short lines to do that -- but they will haul the freight from city to city.
CSX Grand Rapids Subdivision is well set up for that. CSX can interchange with the G&W companies in GR and Holland, along with the shortline that comes up from Indiana and Kalamazoo (owned by Watco, I believe). CSX has some active customers by the airport, in Alto, and by the Wyoming Yard; along with Padnos on the West Side. I'm not aware of much additional traffic. They could let G&W switch those customers out and just work out of Wyoming and Holland yard.
As someone already mentioned, CSX selling the track does not mean a more passenger rail-friendly operation would go in. It's fun to imagine what a commuter rail system would look like, but it would be a tough sled to get it going.
Let's start by seeing 2x daily service to Chicago via Amtrak, or GR to Detroit service via Amtrak...
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6 hours ago, RegalTDP said:
Wow, thank you so much @MJLO . So interesting to see what's going on in the state.
For anyone curious, I threw together a table of where the metro ranks nationally. GR moved up one rank to #51. For the first time, we've officially bypassed Rochester, NY! #SuckItRochester
This is a table of our "peer group" (MSAs ranging 0.9 - 1.3 million i.e. roughly 200k up and down from GR).
Some thoughts:
-Is this the first year they've identified the principal cities as "Grand Rapids-Kentwood"? I could've sworn as recently as last year it was still "Grand Rapids-Wyoming." That's surprising to me, but I guess it would indicate the Southeast metro is helping grow the region's economy. For those who are curious what the criteria is for naming the principal cities in a metro area, see here. When there's a second principal city, it means there's a high worker population there compared to residents.
-If these estimates are accurate and the trends continue, GR will easily pass Birmingham and Buffalo in the next decade. Hartford is unlikely.
-Tucson, Fresno, and Tulsa have been chasing GR for years but our rate of growth this past decade has been slightly higher. Need to keep pace to avoid getting bypassed ourselves.
-BUT: This is a census year that's taking place in the middle of a pandemic so who knows what the 2020 numbers will be. We were burned pretty badly in 2010. Remember to fill out the census, people.
There's actually been a decent amount of Rochester-to-Grand Rapids migration the past decade. I personally know about a dozen or so. There's one college/university in the area that's responsible for the majority.
Now getting the Western New Yorkers to root for the Lions or Tigers is a whole different beast. Those sports allegiances die hard...
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1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:
I know a higher up at Gaines Township, I think it will be sooner than that. They're starting community input sessions this month I think.
Other than that I can't really think of any highways or state-owned roads that need to be widened. Maybe Wilson? I-196 West of downtown needs to be rebuilt, which I know is in the works, especially the offramps and the Lane Avenue on-ramp. I hope that is part of that project.
Maybe also I-196 Westbound from Cascade Road to the Beltline interchange.
Technically, M-37 doesn't pass through Gaines Township (NE boundary is 60th and Patterson). So, is this an expansion of the infrastructure around M-37 & M-6 for the new industrial/warehouse growth occurring around that area? Some additional lanes for 60th, 68th, Patterson, could be useful. M-6 clogs every afternoon at the M-37 interchange, so there is some opportunity there, too.
If money or time or forward thinking weren't issues, I would suggest quite a few highway expansions: Re-build and expand I-196 from the Beltline to Hudsonville (I know I-196 is getting rebuilt from Grandville to Hudsonville right now, but why not add an additional lane for future growth in Ottawa County)? Expand I-96 from 28th Street to I-196 exit? Expand US-131 from I-96 to 10 Mile Rd? Shoot, why let Wilson become the "West Beltline"? The East Beltline is a mess during rush hours. Why not make it a limited access freeway connecting 28th Street @ I-196 to I-96?
And lest we get too crazy with adding only highway lane miles, why not keep moving forward with the commuter rail option from Holland to downtown GR?
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13 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:
Speaking of the bond money.... I looked at the list of projects and it seems like everything is mainly resurfacing with some reconstruction. I didn't really see any widening projects (except for I-196) Are W. MI roads really not going to see any lanes added?
Mlive did an article about this a couple of weeks ago. Only widening project I saw was M-37 (Broadmoor/Beltline Ave) from 76th to 92nd Streets in Caledonia. Very much needed widening project. Of course, that's not until 2024.
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7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:
Maybe they think it's going to be a big divisive issue in the community, due to funding, and we're coming into another divisive election year. Although blowing federal budgets and going into huge amounts of government debt seems to be all the rage lately so I don't see what the issue would be.
Not just lately....
Neither political party is particularly interested in balancing the budget or reducing the debt.
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On 8/31/2019 at 8:27 AM, GRDadof3 said:
I agree. These type of buyouts rarely if ever are good for the GR area. There may be a few exceptions but when you look at locally owned manufacturers around here that were bought by international firms, the local crew basically is just manufacturing people and not top brass. Most Founders drinkers do not care that it's based in Grand Rapids, and I think only 20% of Founders' sales are in Michigan now. We shall see if Mahou thinks there is value in keeping the main production hub here. I believe there are a ton of layered tax credits in all of that recent growth that they'd be on the hook for if they skipped town.
I will add though that it's definitely congratulations to Dave and Mike and the others. In business school they teach you to grow a business with the ultimate goal of selling it. And that's what they did. It's textbook business success story. But the feeling of pride for Grand Rapidians having Founders here is pretty much gone, in my mind.
I think what tends to happen in situations like this is stagnation for Founders in GR. Instead of seeing growth for Founders GR operations, instead you see further growth opportunities move elsewhere.
Let's say Founders needs to expand capacity in 2022 (hypothetically). Before this, it probably would have involved purchasing or building in GR. Now, new operations may crop up somewhere else in the country. The corporate PR machine will say that opening a plant in Texas helps cater to the large population there, that this isn't replacing GR operations, this is a good thing for Founders, etc. Then, in 2025, a bottling line is shifted from GR to Texas. This continues until not much is left in GR.
I hope I'm wrong. But there are innumerable examples of this occurring in many industries across the country. Time will tell, but while it may be a positive for Founders and their investors, it probably won't be the optimal development for GR and West Michigan.
The other problem is that profits won't be filtering into GR. Profits go to the corporate headquarters and philanthropy, investment, etc. stay there and not in GR.
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Does anybody know how well this building is leasing? I drove by Sunday for the first time in months, and it looked like there were quite a few cars parked outside.
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1 hour ago, Raildude's dad said: Everyone complained about the condition of our roads. After a good decade of under investmewnt (and no orange barrels) it is only going to get worse. Which way do you want it, can't have both. Or you can pull a Walker, retire
. I can always walk to work if I have too
My critiques tend to be related to the following:
1) When MDOT repairs a road, they tend not to future proof it. Examples being the twin I-196 projects in GR and Hudsonville. If you're going to take the time and money to do a major rebuild/reconstruct, why not prepare for future growth, too? MDOT seems to do projects for the present, or even for the traffic levels of 5-10 years ago.
2) Too often, I hear that Michigan roads are poor due to the weather conditions. Having grown up in an area of the country with twice the snow and similar temperatures, you can plow and salt the roads, and repair potholes. Somehow, Michigan hasn't looked to other states in the Northeast and Midwest to figure out what they already know about dealing with snow and freeze/thaw.
Taxes and fees (also taxes) can be slushed around and make it difficult to tell state vs. state who is investing more or less in infrastructure. I don't know truly where Michigan stands, but I do know that Michigan taxes are not so low that under-investment can be the sole explanation for Michigan's infrastructure. I have to think that poor management, bad decision making, and poor engineering (see M-6 west of 131) have contributed collectively to the state of the roads.
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5 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:
I knew this was coming but didn't realize that the entire eastbound I-196 would be routed onto M6, that will be a royal pain in the ass as a GR-Holland commuter. I was hoping both directions would be able to share the eastbound I-196 lanes with a divider in the middle, sort of like 131 last summer.
The section of westbound I-196 that's going to be rebuilt is in pretty rough shape, so it's time but damn this whole region is under construction.
I know Mdot isn't forward-thinking, but this is a stretch of highway that should be EXPANDED while it is reconstructed. The GR-Holland corridor isn't going to stop growing, so why not move the area around M-6 to 3 lanes in each direction now? Oh, yeah, because the gas tax isn't high enough yet...
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On 3/25/2019 at 7:42 PM, walker said:
Here's a couple of neat photos from this thread a dozen years ago. I've added some arrows and texts to identify current landmarks in one of the photos in the doctored photo at the bottom.
The tags represent what is there now. What is now Founders was the Interstate Motor Freight terminal. What is now the Intersection Bar was a truck dealer. I think I've identified the New Mertens correctly but not 100% sure. The Intersection is a good marker because it now butts up against the curve in 131.
Don't know where the black lines came from, sorry.
A couple of things I find interesting in this photo:
1) In addition to US-131 not being put in yet, I-196 is also not under construction yet.
2) At the very top of the photo, you can see the GR & Eastern Rail bridge and the Ann Street bridge. Beyond (north) of that, there is very little. Alpine certainly hadn't developed into what it is today, and there isn't the growth that is currently on both sides of the river. Essentially, northern city sprawl ended at Ann Street.
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I'm not intending to start a debate on the merits for or against the additional gas tax, but I'm curious about the quote below: would this help or hurt the GR area in getting more road attention? Would this help GR get some of the highway upgrades that I believe are necessary (3rd lane on I-96 between I-196 and 28th Street, 3rd lane on US-131 N of West River, 2nd lane on M-37 through Caledonia, etc.)? Or does this mean more money funneled towards Metro Detroit, at the expense of GR?
"The new revenue would be targeted to the most heavily traveled and "economically significant" roads rather than be divided under a current formula that critics say favors rural areas."
https://www.woodtv.com/news/michigan/a-breakdown-of-gov-whitmer-s-budget-plan/1829151276
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I agree with the above comments that this is a waste of time and money.
If it was my money to spend, I would use the $1,000,000 towards further growth and redevelopment in Burton Heights. That neighborhood seems to be benefiting from increased development recently, and returning it to a desirable neighborhood would go a long way towards improving the Silver Line.
I think the Laker Line will do much better, with proven destinations at both ends of the line.
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1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:
"Under the Consensus Policy Project proposal, close to $2.5 billion would be raised in total over nine years by increasing the state’s regular and diesel gas taxes by 5 cents per year. The group estimates its proposal would raise $275 million the first year, $550 million in year two and $825 million by the third year, eventually nearing $2.5 billion by year nine."
I am all for this, let the people that drive the most pay to fix the damn roads.
I would think $2.5 Billion per year would lead to some significant projects. The only question is... Would west MI see much of that money or would it go to Lansing and Metro Detroit like it does now?
This article doesn't really spell it out, but I would prefer that any legislative fix (ie, tax hike), means that all gas tax money goes towards infrastructure. Michigan already has one of the highest gas taxes in the country, because so much of that money gets diverted elsewhere. If that also means an income tax hike, so be it, but a consumption tax should go towards said consumption.
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1 hour ago, crinzema said:
Econ 101: The public will carry the debt. This is a liability placed onto the tax base of Grand Rapids and Kent County. No one within the tax base will be utilizing the services of this hotel. Extensive studies within the Hotel Industry, generated by our nations finest institutions, show that there is a notable and negative economic disturbance with the introduction of Publically Owned Hotels. This is not considered infrastructure. A single, "CHOSEN" corporation will "make a profit for* themselves", as stated by GRDadof3. There is no market failure that needs to be addressed here. I don't care if a traveler's pillow will be 200ft closer to the convention floor. I don't think this is a problem that requires the public to finance 100 million dollars to solve the pillow problems of the 1%. This is cronyism to high heaven. I'm done ranting.
If the public will carry the debt, then the city/county should be required to have the public vote for a millage specifically for this project -- just like occurs for taxes that pay for arenas/stadiums.
I would enjoy voting no for additional taxes for a hotel.
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17 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:
More people get on in Holland than GR. Will they ride from Holland to GR to Kazoo?
What is the reason for the 24% decline? Cheap gas? Lots of airline options? Train reliability/availability?
I would hope that a GR-Kzoo-Chicago Amtrak service would be in addition to, not replacing GR-Holland-Chicago service. Maybe arrive in GR early in the morning and leave GR late at night to mirror the current Pere Marquette service. Or maybe a mid-day arrival/departure out of GR. I think augmenting the service would help.
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I heard from some one in the construction industry that part of the building is sinking. Has anyone else heard anything about this? It's just a rumor, but I heard it's going to cost Amazon a lot of money to correct the issue.
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9 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:
It is very possible and was suggested to both the architect in charge and some members of the RAPID board . Completely ignored. It should have been constructed with the east option later IF there is ever service to Detroit or Kalamazoo. The same architect said they couldn't get the train to the tent because the cars wouldn't fit under Wealthy St overpass. That's really a dumb comment since there were freight yard tracks in the same location.
Service to Holland will be fought tooth and nail by CSX. And there is no gov't agency that can make them accept commuter service on anything but CSX terms. They just make it so expensive, it won't happen.
GRD3 and a few of us tried to get a Sparta to downtown (Bridge St / GVSU campus) rush hour commuter service just looked at but guess who owned the tracks from Ann St to downtown? And that was with a RR north of Ann that was willing to consider it. Same corporate owner owns GR to Lowell.
I'm new to this board (and relatively new to the area), but it is already depressing how often civic leaders screw up some rather obvious transit/cityscape choices (like not trying to complete the wye into the station). I'm sure it's even worse for those who have been following these decisions for a long time.
You are correct about CSX. They are not a good host railroad for passenger/commuter rail, and this is evidenced throughout the country. A better option may be to buy R.O.W. from CSX. A decent portion of the GR-Holland portion is double tracked. I'm assuming the R.O.W. is there for the entire line to be double tracked from GR-Holland. Buying or leasing the R.O.W. from the second track may be the better option than dealing with CSX. Although, that defeats the entire point of the initial idea and probably destroys the budget for such an idea.
Genesee & Wyoming owns from Ann Street north and east on the West Side. Coopersville & Marne (a tourist line) owns the line west of Ann Street. I believe Grand Elk owns from Hughart Yard (along 131 @ Burton St) south to Kalamazoo. They may also own the abandoned-in-place spur that juts out to 44th St southeast from Burton Street. I don't know how these companies are to work with for passenger/commuter rail, but some of these rail lines may be attractive commuter rail options, particularly a GR-Wyoming-Cutlerville-Byron Center-Wayland line that runs North-South. And like you said, a line up to Sparta would probably do well, also.
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35 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:
My only issue with the Amtrak station is that it's not in a very good spot for easy in-and-out for commuter trains coming in from the SW like the CSX. I don't even know how the Amtrak train maneuvers around to get in and out of there. Anyone ridden the Amtrak? You can get away with monkeying around when people are expecting a 4 - 5 hour train trip, not for a 20 minute ride from Hudsonville.
One option could be completing the wye to the Amtrak station. It looks like the city already owns the parcel at 280 Logan SW. Acquiring the top edge of 503 Century (Faber & Co) could possibly allow a wye to be connected that would eliminate the need for the train to stop, have the switch pulled and back into the station.
Of course, Amtrak would likely be interested in this, too, so that makes me wonder if it isn't feasible, since Amtrak didn't already try this when they put in their station.
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53 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:
Depots themselves don't seem like they'd be that expensive to build. Essentially an enclosed pavilion with bathrooms (no need for a ticket counter with everything automated).
It's the land that would be expensive and the Wealthy land is still owned by the city I believe. Or the railroad.
I would guess either MDot or Amtrak owns the Wealthy Street Station. (MDOT subsidizes most if not all of the Amtrak trains through Michigan).
I would be opposed to using Wealthy Street for the GR Terminal. If you could tie in with the new (existing) Amtrak station off of Grandville Ave., you have a short walk across the parking lot to the bus depot. As others have noted, access to other forms of transportation would be key to making this idea work.
2 hours ago, elcelc said:me: "Oh cool!" scroll, "Oh cool!" scroll, "Ahhh!"
Very unfortunate. Thanks for sharing the pictures! Do you have any pictures/locations of other possible depots along this corridor? Or pictures of former depots along this corridor?
. I can always walk to work if I have too 
Is something big coming?
in Grand Rapids
Posted
I wonder if the design is expandable for more seating later on? It doesn't appear so, with the roof/canopy over top. It seems like 3-5k now would be fine, but hopefully 8-10k is needed later on for a soccer team or GVSU football.