54equalsunity
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Posts posted by 54equalsunity
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This is awesome!
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While we're at it we should just tear down 131 and figure something else out. It's burying heads in sand to say that rebuilding the highway for auto traffic is a smart move. That nasty, decrepit highway has already hurt tens of thousands through pollution of all kinds. I guess that's what an expanding metro needs, and poor people be damned.
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Pedestrian malls have worked in more places than NYC. This article, published a few days ago, showcases some surviving (even thriving) examples of pedestrian malls. It also makes a fantastic point: context matters.I think temporary closures make a ton of sense on a number of roads - Monroe Center, Ionia, Bridge, Cherry (in East Hills), Wealthy (at several different points), etc. Or some of the suburban downtowns (Gaslight, Ada, Grandville). Detroit does weekend closures with Monroe Street in Greektown and it has worked well.
I also think there may be opportunities to do a pedestrian-focused design like Monroe Center is now with one lane of traffic with parking and wide sidewalks - not closed to traffic, but through traffic is a distant third priority behind pedestrians and parking. That could potentially work for Bridge if there was a reasonable bypass (Second could work). I also think it could do wonders for Ionia between Cherry and Fulton - route the auto traffic and buses to Commerce or Ottawa instead.
But I am firmly against full pedestrianization. The only place I have ever seen that work consistently in this country is New York City. It works in Europe, I suppose.
IMO , the one lane of traffic on Monroe Center is terrible in the sense that I could taste the vehicle exhaust as I ate outside on a beautiful day at Brick and Porter.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-09/why-america-fell-out-of-love-with-the-pedestrian-mall?utm_content=citylab&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic
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There are no streets that would be worse off than they are already with the current standard of unrestricted vehicle access. The Open Streets program in NYC has been very successful. At the very least that section of Bridge should be closed to vehicle traffic on Fridays and Saturdays. There are more than enough people walking through there to occupy the space and make it feel alive.Sorry, but I dislike this idea so much, I think I'd protest if the city presented it. LOL. I've seen VERY FEW pedestrian / "mall" conversions succeed, and most of them ultimately make the street worse. Maybe it's PTSD from Monroe Mall, but I hope they never, ever, ever try it again. .. [emoji4]
Joe
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On 8/7/2021 at 12:52 AM, droonus2000 said:
I saw one driving north on 131 Wednesday?, I think. Pretty cool to see something that long driving anywhere.
Speaking of 131, does anyone know what they are working on in the SCurve area?
I believe it is sign work, because MDOT doesn't waste enough money. It's slated to last through mid-September.
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Traffic is a gas, not a liquid.There’s this myth that the addition of weave merge lanes are supposed to reduce rush hour traffic. That’s not what they are for. Congestion is inevitable. They improve overall flow. Anyone that’s driven that stretch of I-96 knows the frustration of being trapped behind someone going under the speed limit, or having to choose to let someone ride their rear end, or speed up to well over the speed limit while passing. They Improve flow and safety, and yes do accommodate additional volume as well.
Grand Rapids freeway infrastructure is about 3 decades behind its needs. The small improvements over the last 40 years have not kept pace with the 40 years of growth.
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Yep, just repairs at Central Station.Some small observations today. First, the Rapid Central Station has some tarps over the northern part of the outdoor canopy area. Have no idea what that is about. Maybe just some repairs.
2. The Owen-Ames-Kimball Co. Building on Century SW is having some windows put in. Nice to see it opening to the street.
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_07/20210714_174101-01.thumb.jpeg.c747a265256f740787e7413ea18e1717.jpeg
3. This massive thing was going down Byron Center Rd. @ 28th street in Wyoming. Obviously part of a road project, just not sure where.
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_07/20210714_111014-01.thumb.jpeg.a857ba89e2040495ba5449119cb33a28.jpeg
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I really hope you heard wrong. No way is a third lane going to significantly improve travel times for at most 3 hours a day. That's the last thing we need, anyway.I believe I heard, maybe on here, that I-96 Westbound from 28th to the interchange is going to 3 lanes soon. But not sure if that was going to happen to the eastbound side (it's rarely backed up). Maybe they're incorporating the two projects, of adding a 3rd lane and adding an offramp.
I do agree with your perception of EB. I don't know that I've ever been in a backup on that side, at any time of day.
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With this plus the Sligh development we will be gaining more than 1100 downtown-adjacent units of housing. That's incredible.Rennovation of the existing building, two additional buildings and a parking ramp. I think it's awesome that they are proposing a parking ramp when they could have just as easily made a sea of parking and rennovated the existing building.
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_05/Untitled.thumb.jpg.8dbce1be91fe76db10054f32378779cd.jpghttp://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_05/Untitled2.thumb.jpg.7aec28457117cdc6066208e36f4e0dd1.jpg
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I can see the resemblance, but the GVSU building looks like an extremely cheap knock off of that beautiful stone.I'm fine with the different designs and like the contrast ("conflict") between the buildings. Still would have liked it if the streetscape along Michigan and now Monroe had been more pedestrian friendly but that ship has sailed.
EDIT: I guess what it comes down to is that I like the new Grand Valley building. The stone work reminds me somewhat of a building I admired in Manhattan across the street from Grand Central Terminal where a company I worked for many decades ago had their headquarters. I'd visit there occasionally on business .
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_05/1961362041_GVSUBUILDING.png.cd06f559ee5148e0b9a5324185325e98.png
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2021_05/80774805_BowerySavingsBank.jpg.d865556700896cb0bf62625c6993e1a2.jpg
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Wasn't there a plan at some point to construct some kind of zig zagging path across the hill, or am I just dreaming?Part of me wishes the city would connect Fairbanks down the hill to Division and complete the connectivity of the neighborhood.
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So we're getting one modestly-sized office building and two GIANT garages that are going to be occupied 8-10 hours a day? I think Monroe North is on the losing end of this deal, but that's the way the money cookie crumbles.
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Yesterday from Gillett Bridge. It probably looks even better in today's sunshine!
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Hopefully this results in more tickets being issued. Parking enforcement is so hit or miss in this city. This is especially a problem in the winter. Our street constantly had cars parked on the wrong side, making it difficult for the plows.Not sure if there's a better place for this story, but thought it worth noting...
https://www.grandrapidsmi.gov/Our-City/News-Media/Parking-enforcement-duties-transfer-from-police-dept.-to-Mobile-GR
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My wife and I recently purchased a 100 year old house in the city, and today during the course of our work on the basement we found The Grand Rapids Herald Sunday paper from 1/15/1933. It was a lot of fun to read all of the old stories and imagine the world in GR at that time.
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This is (eventually) bad news for Allegan County, but if I was a pharmaceutical company in MI I can't think of any other place I'd rather be. It seems like a shame that the government had to hand over $2 million as part of the deal. This isn't Flint, for Christ's sake.
https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2020/10/perrigo-building-448m-headquarters-in-grand-rapids-plans-for-170-new-jobs.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
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On 10/7/2020 at 6:31 PM, Floyd_Z said:
All very good points.
The U.S. as a whole is very auto-centric for many reasons. I think one of the main factors is we have the area to spread out, which ties into your point of building denser, which I totally agree with. It would be costly to widen, but how much more costly would it be to build an efficeint transportation network in GR? And then it comes back to density, would our low density support it? I'm thinking for example, someone who works downtown but lives out in Rockford or Ada or Lowell or Ottawa County.... what alternatives does someone have besides drive or carpool? Again it's a chicken and egg kinda situation.
I know Europe is different for a multitude of reasons... it's older, denser, and people are more likely to use mass transit, but if GR were in Europe we would probably have a fantastic subway system. Apples and Oranges, I know. Cities with similar populations to GR would be Zagreb, Krakow, Prague, Porto, etc. Prague and Porto both have vast subway networks. Krakow and Zagreb have some very efficient tram lines.
Portos subway network kind of blew my mind for how clean, cheap, and efficient it was, even through all the crazy topography. Will it ever happen here? Probably not. If we can't even maintain or existing infastructure, this would be a pipe dream.
On 10/11/2020 at 12:38 PM, Raildude's dad said:Back on topic. I've worked in transportation infrastructure my whole career - 47 years. (Don't tell anyone, I design, construct, and assist in maintaining the dirty word -roads
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When there were concerns about "urban sprawl" in the 70's-80's the years the townships were advised by the "experts" to require a minimum of 2-3 acres and 250 feet of road (public or private) for residential zoning. Both to discourge urban sprawl. They also allow private roads that don't require the investment that public roads require. So if you look on Kent County Parcel Viewer you will see a proliferation of private streets (public or private) McMansions occupying a lot of acreage, including farmland. So any future ability to get density for public transportation is gone..
IMHO, the residential zoning should have required public sewer and water with a minimum of 90 feet frontage. It results in compact urban development that possibly support public transportation at least conducive to Uber and Lyft. IMO until development goes vertical (multi stories) public transit isn't practical.
A lot of good points and information here. I think we defeat ourselves when we say public transportation is not feasible in the US. In GR we already have a mostly-suburban layout, even in much of the city limits, and we have a bus system that works fairly well (for a US system, at least). I don't really consider 30 minute headways to be acceptable, but it is what it is for now. The existence of a reliable service tells us that bussing (or in the pipe dream world, trams/streetcars) is a practical approach to this kind of layout. To get back on topic and talk about EBL, just because the current zoning doesn't permit "urban" development doesn't mean we can't just keep the existing road and increase the use of public transpo. I'm thinking of places like the apartment complex just north of Knapps Corner. Great little spot of density, but totally served by cars (there aren't even sidewalks on that side of the road, or a crosswalk until Knapp). It would be so much better if we could offer people an alternative to walk to Knapps Corner or take a bus downtown from right outside their apartment. I get the feeling that we'll be seeing a lot more of these apartment complexes, so doesn't it seem like a more practical approach to back public transpo instead of sinking money into widening roads?
With that said, my digression is ended. I look forward to hearing more about EBL development! When traffic is light it almost feels like one of the winding state highways up north with all the greenery. -
Cars are urban litter. I'd rather see actual parking enforcement instead of the pick-and-choose approach I see now before we penalize a scooter user for leaving one next to a sidewalk. The double standard here is crazy.
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Yes, it's terrible, but only during rush hour, and only on certain portions of it. I've never been "stuck" (i.e., still crawling forward between lights) for more than 15-20 minutes. Nothing like "actual traffic" in a big city.Have you driven on E Beltline during rush hour? It's a crapshow.
Widening is a bad idea for multiple reasons.
1) We can't afford it, as a state. That is my original point. I doubt there's even money in place for R/R of EBL going forward.
2) We can't afford it, as a society. Widening means increased incentive to just keep funding and building auto-dominant nonsense, and we all know that regardless of any arguments for cars and equity or independence that they are not a sustainable form of transportation for a metropolitan environment. We are obviously going to need to keep building on land along EBL, but that doesn't mean it has to be subdivisions of SFHs and apartments with huge parking lots. Put enough pressure on the 4 lane setup and we'll find alternatives.
3) if we widen EBL then we take another step toward looking like Metro Detroit. Have you been to Metro Detroit? It's a terrible place for people. It's all 6-8 lanes of cars ZOOMING through what we're once perfectly pleasant little places.
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The bare minimum of maintenance and replacement won't happen without adequate funding. I pray that we don't see a project as ridiculous as widening the East Beltline anytime soon.Nobody wants to pay the $0.45 / gallon but these type of improvements will not happen without adequate funding.
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I hope not.Speaking of the bond money.... I looked at the list of projects and it seems like everything is mainly resurfacing with some reconstruction. I didn't really see any widening projects (except for I-196) Are W. MI roads really not going to see any lanes added?
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Ooh you haven't been to Flint in a while, I'm guessing? They redid the section of 69 from 75 to the Saginaw St ramp. I totally get the comparison, though. [emoji846]No lie, I'm really looking forward to them restarting the I-196/96 rebuild again, since I travel that route multiple times daily. The slowdowns will be a pain but that section of I-196 they haven't done yet is so crapty now. [emoji14] I feel like I'm driving into Flint.
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"In the 1950s or 1960s, plans were laid to construct an M-52 expressway/freeway northerly from Adrian. The portions of M-52 completed in 1959 and 1962 from M-50 northerly to Manchester were constructed to limited-access standards with access only at crossroads and ample right-of-way to add an additional set of two lanes. A full cloverleaf interchange was graded out for a planned fully-controlled access interchange with a proposed US-12 freeway just north of the M-52 & US-12 junction. This interchange is still visible, especially the twin mounds of dirt for the US-12 overpasses. Why the planned expressway/freeway was cancelled is not yet clear."Off topic slightly. But just north of us-12 and M-52, theres a cloverleaf interchange for an unbuilt expressway. Can anyone tell me more about that?http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/M-052.html
In these screenshots you can see the interchange right of ways, starting with the cloverleaf site:
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Things are pretty crazy down there. I trained at the Walgreens in Byron Center and the patient population is exploding. Lots of people coming through the drive thru in black Yukons. It's all a bunch of suburban garbage to me, but I can tell that's where the "money" is. Plus, the high school is completing a multi million dollar addition/renovation and it seems like a new strip mall pops up daily at the 84th street exit. It's definitely the latest expansion of GR's sprawl, that's for sure.Not recently! I feel like the metro area is a triangle. The south side keeps expanding while the north stays about the same.
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Highway and Road Construction Updates
in Grand Rapids
Posted
The privilege and lack of vision in this thread is incredible. There is so much harm to be done by "modernizing" 131. There isn't room for more lanes. There are still houses right next to the freeway in some places, and it's extremely obvious that 131 was not meant to fit as a "modern" freeway from 196 to 28th St by the lack of shoulders and tight on/off ramps. Not that it would do any good, anyway. Anyone who's been paying attention in the last 70 years is familiar with induced demand. Add more noise and air pollution to the mix and all we're doing is continuing the failure of a pattern that we've been stuck in since the 1950s.
If any of you think electric cars are going to save us then I have a bridge to sell you. The only way forward is to shift the majority of investment into non-car transportation. Apparently none of you have been outside of America, because if you had you would realize that car-based infrastructure is only one piece of a much larger puzzle, and if we can't solve that without littering our downtown with parking garages then we should all just give up and go home.
Calling this take political is like calling the "debate" about taking the COVID-19 vaccine political. It's not. It's pure common sense.
If you want "political," how about we give up on 131 and drive a freeway through some white people's homes on the western edge of the metro to give the trucks a thru route? This state has done a great job of that with black folks, even if GR hasn't. And with the attitude of MDOT, one of the most egregious transportation (i.e., cars and trucks) departments in the country, it's definitely still possible today.
If I get banned for this then whatever. It's worth it to not hear this crap.