seth0423
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Posts posted by seth0423
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I will say... There are some great ideas here, but we should group them into reality and just ultra dreams list.
2050 Plan:
Reality:
- All Three Phases of Streetcar completed (with the added help of an Eastland Mall redevelopment)
- Commuter Rail up to Spencer. This is rational because the NCRR will be double tracked all the way through in 40 years. I honestly see this as coming through by 2025-2030. Plus, 23,000 people commute to Mecklenburg from Cabarrus County alone.
- BLE will be complete, with the whole blue line being able to use 3 car trains.
Dreams:
- RED LINE RED LINE RED LINE!!! Last estimate I saw was a $650-700 Million price tag, Double the price of the blue line.
- Commuter Rail to Gastonia, Monroe, and Rock Hill. This will ease the congestion on our major corridors. (Plus 21,000 Commuters from Union)
- Light Rail, with the tunnelled Southpark Branch and Ballantyne extension.
- Wesley heights trolley merged into the streetcar network... I will attach a map showing where we need them.
- RAIL TO THE AIRPORT. It can be something like Toronto's new Pearson Express but WE NEED IT.
- Last but not least... AN ACTUAL TRAIN STATION FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
Feel Free to edit it with your own ideas
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZYZxMIm9tiHL73zLIJrQceMQc0o&usp=sharing -
That isn't the only hold up on the red line though. The project is pretty much dead until CATS can either a. find the money to build a completely separated track in the NS ROW, or b NS can get something worked out with NCRR to keep up their lease of full trackage rights on the line. NS is scared that they won't be able to renew that lease, therefore making the hardly used O-Line their new main.
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Let's take a step back, and look at the CATS system map: http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/Bus/maps/Documents/Charlotte%20Riders%20Guide.pdf
#1, Charlotte is a very hub and spoke city to begin with. 90% of the major arteries run outward from downtown.
#2, Look at the Crosstowns in the South of the city vs the north. Sure there is a big hub in the center of the town, but we don't have the density to support another large hub. We have these collections of mini-hubs in Southpark, Eastland, etc. and they seem to be doing a pretty good job.
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So, we are saying that BRT would work better on Elizabeth and Central Ave. rather than Independence? Sure, I think it will work about anywhere there is a bus route in Charlotte, but the streetcar is already planned. But, haven't we discussed a Monroe Road routing rather than Independence for the Silver line? What about putting a BRT route on Monroe.
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I might seem a little bit crazy here, but wouldn't a Commuter Rail link to the airport and beyond make some sense? We could operate airport shuttles every 25-35 minutes during peak times. It would only be 5.5 miles into Gateway Station (if it ever gets built for crying out loud), and around 7.5 if you'd take it all the way up to the Amshack on North Tryon. It would be the cheaper alternative to a Light rail link because it could just run over the NS track...
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A little news, I had originally posted this in the Long Term Transit Plan Forum:
The 2016 USDOT budget proposal has two grants that could help us in the near future. One is 75,000,000 for phase 2 of the streetcar, and one is 115,000,000 for the blue line extension. The streetcar grant would pay for approximately 65% of the whole thing, and we could be getting it sooner?
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Instead of building new transit, we definitely need transit to southpark, ballantyne and out to the airport. If the commuter rail to LKN could work out, everything would be fine. And if we had more than 6 trains per day, the models would be better. Charlotte would be the perfect city to set up a hub of commuter rail (Salisbury, Monroe, Rock Hill, Gastonia, and Lake Norman) because of the suburban lifestyle. Especially when our interstates are becoming more and more packed, and a complete redoing of I-77 south of charlotte will cost over a billion dollars. Why not take that money, and develop the transit network.
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Hey guys, good news. In the FY2016 USDOT budget, guess what is under the list of recommeneded grants for start up project? CityLYNX gold line phase 2 could be receiving $75,000,000. Good news?
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/FY2016-DOT-BudgetHighlights-508.pdf
If you want to check it out
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It never wasn't considered. I could have sworn an organization actually studied the possibility... but i can't seem to find it anywhere. The idea has come up a couple of times, but the main difference between us and Lake Norman is the fact we have 10 lanes to get into Charlotte. We don't need a fixing of our transit, we are already extremely accessible. Lake Norman on the other hand, all you hear is traffic on 77 near Huntersville.
Another idea, set up the city like it's Chicago. CATS could have 3 separate branches under it: Commuter Rail/ Express buses, Buses, and Local rail/ streetcar. RTA in Chicago manages Metra, All of CTA, and PACE (regional Buses). This could draw funding from other counties, knowing their money will go to something that will benefit them. If we as residents know our money is going right back into something for our local economy, that's better than paying for something that is helping a different county.
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Good question, the only thing i'm concerned with about the whole thing is the cost...
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What about something as grand as this? I know, too many platforms for charlotte, but this is in Berlin. It has a metro area roughly 2.5 times the size of ours, but ours is twice as dense. Charlotte, while it may not be the largest city in the Southeast, could become an important hub for intercity rail, as is Berlin.
The station itself has two levels of platforms, one above ground, and one below. Charlotte could have 3, one below ground for access to NS mainline (would require tons of money), one at ground level for LYNX services and CATS buses, and one above ground for trains to wilmington and Monroe. I personally believe it is one of the nicest looking stations in the world.
Now, if all the plans go through, we could have rail service from Charlotte along 5 routes.
Charlotte --> Raleigh (and North East)
Charlotte --> Atlanta (and Midwest)
Charlotte --> Asheville (via Salisbury)
Charlotte --> Columbia (And FL)
Charlotte --> Wilmington
And some potential Commuter lines:
Charlotte --> Lake Norman/Morresville (If upgraded enough, Asheville bound trains could run on this line)
Charlotte --> Salisbury (NCRR)
Charlotte --> Gastonia
Charlotte --> Monroe
Charlotte --> Rock hill (stretching it?)
My point is, we need something that won't look like a shed, and maybe something a little bit more than a bridge.
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Does anyone know when we are supposed to get our fourth Piedmont, and what times it is going to run? I've seen 2016-17 from the DOT's report, but I'm not so sure.
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Interesting find:
Charlotte Fights Its Anti-Transit Foes: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2013/09/charlotte-fights-its-anti-transit-foes-infographics/6747/
Shows how successful the Blue Line was. Do you think we will get the same results with the Streetcar and the BLE?
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I'm still sold on dubone's idea about puting the station at the intersection of the CSX and NS Railroads. It would sure be a whole lot cheaper. I personally think if CATS could maybe hire a window cleaner, we could have one transit hub, in that neighborhood. With Gateway's plan, you have to walk a good 4-5 blocks on Trade. Now, if the Streetcar could somehow become a no-fare zone this would work great.
The out of the loop station is the better option because #1, you aren't interfering with NS traffic on their mainline at all. The only problem with both of them, is the grade separation between the two. We all know that ADM is going to be stubborn about leaving their facility, and it won't happen anytime soon.
Gateway seems to be on the right track, and I think that offically splitting the tasks is a great decision on the government's part. Now we know who to blame
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FWIW: MARTA rail opened in 1979 and Fulton and Dekalb counties had a total population of 1,070,432. Mecklenburg had 990,977 in 2013 (most recent data from the same source). I would bet that Meck today is a bit denser than Atlanta of the late 70s -- but I am too lazy to look that up.
Mecklenburg today certainly has more concentrated employment than Atlanta did in 1979. I wonder what we would build if the federal government gave us $3.5 BILLION for a heavy rail system? (Atlanta received around $800 million in the 1970s -- adjusting for inflation that is roughly $3.5 billion in 2015 dollars). I suspect we would not be talking about mixed traffic streetcars.
What I have noticed about Charlotte is that we will get the density to support the transit, if we build the transit first. You can tell because of the apartment boom in south end. I feel like the BLE will definitely bring tons of TOD with it, and anywhere else we build light rail, it will come. What we have talked about before with the rail line down Tyvola, is that this could create another SouthEnd.
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I actually think further Blue Line Capacity Expansion should take precedence over new lines on the budget. Existing lines are often overlooked for new ones, but those types of changes are what make the lines truly have an impact on the city.
Agreed. Even on a Sunday afternoon, 75% of the seats on a 2-car train are full, I can't imagine what it's like during rush hour.
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I think we can have a unanimous consensus that Charlotte needs to completely rethink its long term transit plan. But on a tangent here, all of Charlotte's transit would be more successful if only we had some retail in uptown. This is leaving out a whole group of people, shoppers, that would use transit on a regular basis.
We need light rail to ballantyne. That is just the way it is.
We need light rail to South Park. Tyvola allignment would be great, but what about a line that runs down woodlawn, and then heads south on park?
We need some form of rail to the airport. 25% of passengers terminating flights here doesn't seem like a lot, but really when you think about it, that's still 12.5 million passengers a year.
And we need a modern hub to form it all...
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Why can't we build, not necessarily on the scale of it, but something like the new Union Station project in Washington DC? That project is set to completely revive a neighborhood, and North Tryon desperately needs that. I board trains to Raleigh (when i go) in Kannapolis and that is a nicer station than Charlotte.
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I really want the new international terminal (ex-rental car lots) to go up. I remember a year ago, my flight from Cancun had to sit on the tarmac for more than an hour because of a Lufthansa A340 taking up 2 gates at concourse D.
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Agreed. As mentioned many times here, Dubone's proposed station at the Southeast corner of NS's Charlotte Yard is the point where all major heavy rail lines converge with the Blue Line and is therefore the most logical choice.
Well, let's at least make it more than a long tube.
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The last stretch of the NCRR is currently getting double-tracked between Concord and Charlotte Yard which would help commuter service up to Kannapolis as kermit said. But the current Amshack has no connection to the Blue Line so unless they move the station to the other side of the yard, it's a moot point.
Unfortunately the CSX line out to Matthews and the O-line up to Mooresville are single-track and the railroads aren't keen on any possible service disruption nor would they pay for any double-tracking themselves.
Gateway would have a link via the streetcar, and isn't the plan for the proposed Red Line to build an all new track alongside NS right of way?
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^ CLT-Wilmington is not going to happen in our lifetimes -- it is single track the whole way, very little is in between and CSX is CSX. What could happen is the state could wisely invest in Wilmington-Raleigh (which they are currently working on using the dividend payments from the NCRR) and get speeds there up to 90mph. Once they get 90mph on all the track from Wilmington to Raleigh to Charlotte that route would be a faster trip for Charlotte folks to Wilmington than driving. Keep in mind that the Wilmington terminus is going to be north of the convention center -- there is no discussion (or realistic possibility) of getting the inter-city train closer to Wrightsville. Having said that, resurrecting the streetcar line down Wrightsville ave to the beach (plus a spur to campus) seems a no brainer
Asheville sounds good, but due to the loops that go up the Blue Ridge at Old Fort the route will never be time competitive with driving. Combined with poor station locations in Aville (Biltmore Village) and lousy last mile transit (Asheville is a long way from any skiing) I think money would be much better spent on our core intercity trunk service (CLT-GSO-RGH) plus the extension to Wilmington. A passenger route up the mountain could potentially be tunneled for multiple-billions, but that money would be much better spent on SEHSR.
Agreed on all points. 90 MPH direct would be about 3.5 hours, via Raleigh. The State government has put the Charlotte-Salisbury-Asheville line on the map at least.
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I could potentially see DMUs providing fill in commuter service to Harrisburg, Concord and Kannapolis, but NCDOT has done such a good job with their refurbed rolling stock that I don't see any compelling reason to switch.
I can see one. NCDOT only serves Charlotte and Kannapolis, with the plans to add Harrisburg. You would need something to serve inbetween.
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There are plenty of other passenger service providers who could run an Asheville train. Iowa Pacific, a private railroad, runs multiple private passenger trains around the US. If a ski train could be profitable, Iowa Pacific or someone else could run it; the Rio Grande Railroad, for example, and its successors ran a Colorado ski train until recently.
I didn't mean for it to be strictly a ski train, it could also be a very scenic ride. It would be something like the coast starlight, except on a smaller scale.
What about something as grand as this? I know, too many platforms for charlotte, but this is in Berlin. It has a metro area roughly 2.5 times the size of ours, but ours is twice as dense. Charlotte, while it may not be the largest city in the Southeast, could become an important hub for intercity rail, as is Berlin.
CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines
in Charlotte
Posted
Ok, I have realized something tonight.
We need branches within CATS. The MTC, first of all, not only needs to control the future of design for the transit, but also the funding for those projects. Right now, it seems like the rest of CATS is ignoring the plans. We need a board that controls the transit within Charlotte limits (CATS). We also need one to control transit from regions (like York, and Iredell counties) into the city.
I went to Chicago about a year ago, and noticed something. Their transit system seems to have everything in touch. I know Chicago is 3x our size, but the structure seems to agree on everything. Metra (Commuter Rail), and PACE (the regional bus) cover everything they need to. The 'L' and the CTA bus system, both of which I rode on many times, always took me exactly where I needed to go.
My point is, the MTC can't keep making plans that get us all worked up, only to have CATS try to negotiate with all the surrounding counties and come up unsucessful. We need a true regional transportation authority to make all of this to work out.