brainpathology
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Posts posted by brainpathology
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Don't know where else to put this, so I apologize if this little rant belongs elsewhere.
One of the main reasons I moved out of downtown to south of downtown was cemented for me yesterday when I had an appointment for work in Lake Ivanhoe-ish and headed back down to ORMC. There was work going on at DPAC and Orange was closed. Unfortunately you couldn't tell that until you were a block or two away and more or less trapped for 10 minutes until you could creep along and turn either way just before the close.
The only warning was a sign announcing lane thinning, not closing, and it was only 3 or 4 blocks away. No info sign at, say, Colonial that Orange would be closed periodically for construction. Nothing at Livingston, nothing at Robinson, nothing at Central. Just all of a sudden, at rush our, the main S route directly through DT gone. So either the planners here know the city is so small time that doing that doesn't really inconvenience many people (the overwhelming impression of outsiders from speaking to others "Really, you actually had a chance to slow down and SEE downtown Orlando?!? You should have enjoyed it!"), or the powers that be are less than competent to run a "real" downtown - which we may actually have someday - and that the design joke that central station is shows we have a long way to go before we have one.
This was a regular (probably still is) happening on weekends at bar close times too, only then multiple streets would close making it necessary to figure out, and then memorize and then ALWAYS use the one single route that could get you home (to the Solaire) if you happened to be out after dark on any weekend day. (I'd actually be all for a long street downtown to be permanently closed to auto traffic to act as a pedestrian artery for these times, and as a central promenade or mall.)
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The fact that you can reasonably use Atlanta as some sort of example of encouraging smarter denser growth says even more.
Yeah, the "beltway" is too remote. Atlanta's is a good distance. I mean, the Perimeter in Atlanta is the same distance from downtown at 436 in Altamonte is from downtown Orlando. Do you all know that? Kind of illustrates just how spread out Orlando metro really is.
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If you really want to be put on the map you need to bribe the cartographers.
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Man I work for the wrong Hospital lol.. we can't seem to get the hotel out of the ground and FH is building a city from scratch basically.
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John, "We don't want the type of people it would bring down here."(John, of course, apparently forgot that "those people" make up the majority of the workers on I-Drive, including at his WonderWorks.)
Wait what? THAT's what's horrible about what he said? 'Don't forget John those horrible people work here - but yes they are horrible.. just don't forget you need them to clean your sh*t'
BTW I'm certain that's not what you meant at all.
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If they really want to save this mall they need to build apartment units with some ground floor retail over every single surface parking lot there. Even leave the parking on the surface. Hang the apartments over them. Convince the Target up the road to leave and make an urban super-target on one parcel as well. This is in addition to the new tenants/buildings they are putting in now, not instead of. There is no possible way this mall becomes a destination mall - which is the only way it has a chance to increase its life expectancy substantially. It dies quickly or it dies slowly. With these changes it will more likely be slowly - probably generating the owners enough revenue to make it worth the small effort. If the city wants it to be viable more long term though they can start making it resemble Bel Mar in Denver now.. or have a large hole to fill in 10-15 years.
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I was hoping most here knew of that. Lol. But a lot of people I have told never realized that Orlando was a big time Military town. I guess it is because little historical acknowledgment is seen throughout Orlando. There is that historical marker at Livingston and Maguire for the old Orlando Army Air base but nothing else. You would think an old WW2 Military plane or artillery piece would be set up on the open land right behind it at the least. Maybe a little museum for the Air Force and NTC history of Orlando, since there is basically nothing left of either. As for McCoy AFB, most of it was destroyed or repurposerd for OIA, but there are actually a few building that remain from the airforce base. The old motor pool building is still intact, and the old ammunition storage bunkers are actually still used by Disney for storage of there MASS supply of firework. Also, the old base golf course is now an airsoft battlefield.There's a lot of old foundations and small buildings as well. I've also heard most of those houses that are the same design in that area of Southport are all old base housing built in 61 they just resold to developers. I have driven through the area and it is pretty cool to think that the whole area was a buzzing military base at one point. It would be great to see some sort of acknowledgment by the City and County.
Here's the locations at McCoy for those who are interested;
Ammuntion Bunkers: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=28.417549,-81.34133&num=1&t=h&vpsrc=0&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=28.417603,-81.339329&spn=0.004944,0.006539&z=18&iwloc=A
Golf Course (south of street address): https://maps.google.com/maps?q=3563+8th+Street,+Orlando,+FL&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x88e77d33453d207d:0xdaeb0b46a65e964f,3563+8th+St,+Orlando,+FL+32827&gl=us&ei=CRpGU_uILtOqsQSqrYG4Dg&ved=0CCgQ8gEwAA
I forgot about this too, don't know if many have heard this story: http://www.hauntedplaces.org/item/orlando-executive-airport/
Sorry for going so far off topic in this thread...
That is the kind of yummy yummy historical information that I can get behind. And now I have an excuse to go visit the airport for a reason other than to escape the city.
I hear voices in lots of foreign languages all over Orlando, at all times of the day rain or shine though... not sure I'd make any friends by suggesting that meant Orlando was haunted.
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It's not like our ownership doesn't have the money to build something like that. But, let's be realistic...look where it's going. Miami's is at the Port of Miami on the water. Ours, is in Miami's equivalent of an area like Carol City or Liberty City.
I'd rather the ownership keep as much money as possible for player contracts. I would MUCH MUCH rather have a serviceable stadium with a good team than the best stadium in the world with the MLS equivalent of the Colorado Rockies playing there. There is not a more burning misery in the world for a team's fan than to go to a gorgeous, beautiful, destination stadium and watch as your team perversely turns early compliments about the venue like "It's so gorgeous I'd go there just to watch the grass grow" into gut wrenching descriptions of the reality of everyone sitting in the stands.
If the team attracts and keeps fans the number of people showing up for the games and sprinkling their money in the surrounding area will be immeasurably more valuable than a trophy stadium with nothing to see inside.
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Any long range plans to run one of the rail projects to Port Canaveral or is that along the route to Miami already (pretty sure it's not - would love to be wrong). Still exciting though.
The maglev seems more like a Shelbyville idea... but I hope it actually 'gets off the ground' as well.
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A lot of people are ignorant.
That couldn't be more true.
Though I was speaking more or Orlando specifically, not Florida. I don't think I qualify for a Northerner.. and certainly wasn't pissed off when I accepted my job here, but I was well aware of most of the things you mentioned above about the state. And frankly, you didn't really add anything about Orlando. There is plenty of media/gaming/entertainment "history" that could be played up more here. More in aerospace probably. More, I think, in what the city is going to do to change the rest of the state in the future by it's continued growth and it's relatively liberal population (compared to other parts of the state). Probably a lot of other areas I'm missing.
The city COULD actually embrace and take more pride in the attractions here too (and I'm not sure what I mean by this. There is an 'atmosphere' of sorts that I quickly became vaguely aware of that citizens here tend toward a resentment of the immeasurable credit that Disney/Universal/Busch have for the city being what it is today). I could never figure out why there wasn't always a transit connection from the airport to the parks, I-drive and downtown - though I am encouraged by the beginnings of that sort of thing being on the horizon.
I don't see this odd resentment on this forum as much FWIW.
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On Saturdays (and Fridays?), certain portions of Orange Ave are already blocked off. I don't think adding another block between South and Anderson would add that much confusion.
Personally, I think they could get away with some boldly painted or even raised crosswalks at South & Orange, like they did in Wynwood.
This is the reason I left downtown. Downtown is so small there is only one street going north and one going south, you just can't close one of them and not cause a detonation of trouble. If you get caught late at work or driving home from family or the airport on a weekend you are pretty much screwed. If you make a single wrong turn trying to get to any downtown building you can kiss up to an hour goodbye - and yes EVENTUALLY you learn the one single route that will get you home.
But, since the situation is completely unworkable the way it is now, adding another block is truthfully not going to make anything worse. Actually, making people park on that side of downtown is doing them a favor because they can easily hop onto I-4 and go to wherever it is they are coming from while walking through the mess that downtown is at night.
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Does Copley Square mean anything for this area? I can't decide. It's 60+ townhouses right there but I feel like Michigan is too far gone to become a practical pedestrian friendly street. Perhaps eventual Lymmo or shuttle service with SunRail will eventually link this portion of the city to the rest of downtown (there's a large county complex near thee that must employ a ton of people)
It means 66 more families (hard not to imagine most are families of some sort, or at least more than one person per unit, since they are all 3 or 4 bedroom townhomes), in a development that died back in 2008ish. It can't be anything but a net positive.
They ARE blocky and suburban looking, I suppose, although I typically rule out townhomes of any kind in my definition of suburban. They are taller than most around downtown at 3 stories and are "relatively" inexpensive. They have forgone the rooftop decks that the earlier units all have which seems like a waste in this climate (or a good idea with all the rain - I imagine it's difficult to keep that much water from eventually wearing down the roof). As fast as these are selling maybe the ones at Orange and Harding may be next. I could see similar developments doing well next to ORMC if what I've read about rezoning some of that industrial area as part of the SODO long range vision is actually going to happen.
That area of Michigan is a lot more walkable than I thought it was. Within a mile of that area are parks, schools, food, shopping etc. The look of Michigan certainly screams "DON'T WALK HERE" though. I imagine whenever I am there how much different the street would look if the zoning mandated zero lot lines for structures but let you have as much parking as you wanted behind buildings. The exact same developments that are there now would instantly look like a pedestrian friendly commercial node street without losing anything of the actual functionality for cars that Orlando and the rest of the South simply has no choice but to accommodate for now.
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Proposed Noodles restaurant (www.noodles.com) - 2682 sq ft - as a new parcel at the Market @ Southside close to Orange between Chick Fil A and PNC. Currently just parking
Did anything ever happen with this? A couple of Noodles &Cos have already opened elsewhere I notice.. but this sorta died?
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Angry about Tinker Field? Look at what else isn't protected
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/os-tinker-field-beth-kassab-20140214,0,5371738.column
Beth encapsulates exactly why Tinker Field matters so much. First the Jaymont Block, then the Eola 5, what's next? Any developer that comes along with a shiny idea for Bulldozer Buddy can do whatever he/she likes with as little public input as possible.
I continue to be fascinated by the folks who say none of this matters, but a city's history is what makes it special. Tear down everything for yet another Baker Barrios uninspired creation (let's think now - what buildings built lately are remotely architecturally significant?) so that downtown can be as inspirational as... Casselberry?
People are always fascinated by the neighborhoods saved by Mayor Bill back in the 80's and early 90's. If it had been up to Buddy back then, Thornton Park and Eola Heights would be gone now. But hey, as long as some out of town developer can make a quick buck and leave a trail of stucco-on-plywood disasters behind, that's all that matters, right? That's not the Orlando I could ever care about.
Ever wonder why Rich Crotty's "Downtown Orange County" on International Drive never took off? Who'd want to live in such a soulless place? There's a reason tiny little bungalows in Thornton Park command such high prices - it's the history and the quality of the neighborhood.
Jernigan and trueblue made great suggestions about where to go from here. First, however, let's ask this question: Buddy knew all along that Tinker was historically significant. If they needed more room for the Citrus Bowl, why was no thought given to moving Rio Grande a little east instead of just taking out Tinker? The answer is simple - because he and his crew simply did not care. They tried to present it at the last minute as a fait accompli, just as they did with the Jaymont Block.
That's the m.o. now - if anything is in your way, just let it go unmaintained long enough to say, "darn, there's just no choice, it has to go," when in fact there was a choice all along which was simply ignored. That way of thinking to make a few people wealthier at the expense of what makes Orlando special in the first place needs to stop now. Let Tinker be the warning.
That's too bad... a lot of people who come here have the mistaken impression (and I was just as guilty as anyone when I got here) that there isn't any history here that isn't murine related besides one serial killer.
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The docs that teach at a med school live farther away - generally. They would still go to Longwood, Dr Phillips, The country club I can never remember the name of, (belle isle? w/e), Winter Park (I'm trying to think of places everyone here commutes in from) - even then you'd be on a rail line almost and a significant % of them would use that to come into work. The students and support staff would be the ones living in that area. Not as young maybe as other students since presumably they've all already been to a 4 year program before, but still younger than the teaching Dr's. In any case, I'd be perfectly happy if they successfully created a dense bustling community of techies and graphics/animation types as well but they have to do that out of thin air, basically. The medical school/research park/VA/etc was going to happen somewhere. It would have been nice to put it into the city limits somehow if not downtown (incidentally that would probably have been the only situation I would have agreed with closing the executive airport for).
We let the same thing happen in Denver btw.. There was plenty of land downtown that could have accommodated the new buildings but it went out to Aurora instead. Although there they got a TON of free land and buildings from the closing of Fitzsimmons army hospital.
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I've thought this for years. It's a real shame. I actually think downtown would have been cheaper after considering the infrastructure costs of basically building a new sub-city out there.
Probably correct too.. I was trying to be a bit diplomatic. Oh well though.
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While the area around the "Creative Village" is suited for affordable housing and government/educational buildings at this point, I'll be surprised if any private-sector developers step in to build office and retail in the next 5 years. It will take major economic development coups for the ultimate build-out to resemble anything like the original vision. Beyond that, it's mostly light-industrial and low-income housing to OBT, which can be revitalised but would need considerable government infrastructure investment. Not to mention, a considerable exercise of eminent domain powers would need to be invoked by the city. An airport redevelopment would be different: there are 1,055 acres under public ownership in the area, not counting the GOAA land fronting SR 50 which was developed in the 1980's with the Colonial Promenade and restaurant out-parcels. The acres are surrounded by desirable residential areas that would ensure a higher-end real estate rental and sales market. A master plan consisting of an extension of the downtown grid that currently ends at Maguire Blvd. could be implemented, with infrastructure funded by the sale of land to private interests at market rates. Here's a quick and dirty rendering:
Rendering with a potential LRT/Streetcar line added:Is the light rail line a real thing or a vision? I hadn't hear Orlando was even looking into light rail for the core.
For what it's worth, I doubt the airport needs to be redeveloped. There is SO much empty and underdeveloped land in Orlando as it is I think we hardly need any more. I actually feel like keeping the executive airport as busy as possible would be in the City's best interests. I really don't think the city needs the challenge of another giant swath of land that they can bungle like the creative village or central station. And actually those two projects aren't really bungled as much as that there really isn't a need for tall in Orlando because of all the available land. Once most-all lots and land have 1-5 stories on them THEN we can start anticipating taller things being built more regularly (not to say the occasional 20-30 story development won't happen).
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14. Medical City- obviously- pending projects are VA Center and new FH campus to the east-
I know there's much more, everyone chime in obviously...
I love the medical city.. but every time I go there (after sacrificing a half day of travel from ORMC to get there and back) it feels like a gigantic missed opportunity. There is a big, huge, disappointment happening at the "creative village" that could have been the medical school. Yes it would have been more expensive, yes it would have meant MUCH higher buildings to accommodate what is there. There is a joke at Central Station being set up that no one is going to enjoy the punchline of when it's finished, empty space along Church st buildings that could have been admin offices.
I definitely understand the desire for the wide open space and room to expand that UCF/VA/Nemours has out there. But damn.. with a hard push and effort from the city, downtown could have been THE medical city. The resulting population of students/patients/commerce that could have been spread around downtown is depressing. I know the politics, I know why it was deemed impossible, I know why ORMC/FH aren't as closely linked as they could and possibly should be to them but the reality vrs the potential in this instance is just depressing. I'm sure where it is is a small fraction of the costs involved with being downtown, etc etc etc.
Right now most of what's in Orlando isn't IN Orlando at all.. and barring a annexing orgy which would basically make the city South Phoenix that's what it looks like the future will be for this city indefinitely.
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And now that Lucerne Pavillion is closing, there will be discussions about whether or not they should sell the property or rebuild depending on what the board decides. Either way, it's definitely an under-utilized piece of property; much like the Orlando Sentinel site.
If history is any indication I'm certain the board will look carefully and decide that whatever decision drives the most business to Florida Hospital is the way to go.
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If it isn't now it certainly will be after this is built. Is McDonald's building it?
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Agreed. And believe it or not, it gets worse!
I'd prefer all monies heavily directed to improving downtown's streetscape, restoring/repairing bricked roads, burying power lines, adding bike lanes, updating intersections & make them more ped friendly, etc.
This city can barely raise enough money to compliment a new tax to build half a concert hall; there is no way private money is ever going to flow to fix public infrastructure. Besides, try to imagine what would happen in this country if we allowed that. It would only be a matter of time before certain places were, for all intents and purposes, owned by the monied interests who "donated" to fix things.
I don't like the globe either but from houses and projects I've visited in this area of the country there are going to be a great many people who do. And heck, in Orlando anything that has a finished surface on all four sides is ahead of 99% of the work artists are hired to do here.
I find it fortunate that this is the only one I really don't care for on the entire list. The net enhancement to downtown with all of these pieces is really quite high (in my opinion - obviously).
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Yes, the blue is the OUC spur. I know how it will physically get to the airport. I just can't understand how the Sunrail system will work between Kissimmee and Orlando if there is an airport stop.
How certain are the other spurs to this system? I'm only aware of two phases of the north/south routes and then talk here and there of spurs to the airport and possibly a link from the airport from a third entity to tie into tri-rail (all of a sudden Tri-rail looks wrong.. forgive that is so) down south. I'm not even sure how certain phase 2 of the north/south routes is. It seems like anything with "phase 2" here means be really careful about counting on it. (I'm looking at you DPCPA)
Downtown Orlando Project Discussion
in Orlando
Posted
What's drab to you guys? Lake Eola looks like the Easter bunny threw up all over the surrounding buildings and even the Suntrust Building has the now fading pastel pyramids that make my eyes hurt every time I look at them. I'm pretty sure that's more because I came from Denver where 2million shades of earth and brick tone is the rule (and if you really want to hear howling about drab boring colors you can talk to some Denver residents) and not because there is anything inherently wrong with colors. When I see loud colors or even bright colors I always suspect the building has something to hide, either it's geometrically boring, poorly constructed, or has nothing to do (no ground floor retail or public space).