csedwards72
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Posts posted by csedwards72
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There is life in malls beyond the anchor stores, like you were saying.
Definitely. If those dying malls on North Tryon (Northpark Mall, with the former Target and former grocery store now re-leased to moderately priced stores, and that Asian mall) can limp along for years after losing anchors, surely Eastland can as well.
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I'm sure that a number of tenants will leave when they're not faced with the legal burden of Belk and Dillard's operating covanents, but if business is strong enough, the mall won't immediately empty out. Actually, some of the prime spaces that are occupied by underperforming national tenats could be more productive in new hands.
Anything that's done with Eastland's existing physical plant will be risky from now on, but if new owners can find a niche with the neighborhood, they're going to have a nice and satisfying payoff in the end, I think.
I agree with that. I used to do real estate finance and anchors- particularly ones in older malls- often have minimal net direct economic benefit to landlords. The value they add is the shoppers they allegedly draw to help the in-line stores. For Eastland, Dillard's apparently isn't doing that well, and that Belk's doesn't seem to be thriving, either. Thus the mall's owner isn't directly making money from the anchor leases and the mall's in-line tenants probably aren't getting much from them, either. Thus if the department stores could be replaced with anchors that appeal more to the neighborhood's residents (e.g., maybe an Old Navy, Steve & Barry's, Magic Johnson Theaters, etc.?), both the landlord and the in-line tenants could be a lot better off.
Oddly enough, some stores will stick around in an unanchored mall. Greenville Mall lost its JBWhite/Dillard's, Proffitt's/Parisian and Wards anchors over the past four years but still has a few stores (Eddie Bauer, Finish Line, April Cornell, etc.) left in the inside. I don't know how on Earth they survive, but they are hanging on.
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Agreed that an investor could find value here because Glimcher is a publicly traded company, therefore under heavy pressure to grow earnings and shed nonperforming assets. However, since valuations are ultimately a function of 10-year cash flow forecasts, this property would be particularly tough to predict cash flows 3 years out, let alone 10.
Steven....even though BCF and Sears are on long term leases and contractually required to pay rent, can't the tenants (or any subtenants) still "go dark" and get out of Dodge now that all the original mall covenants have burned off? If so, that would certainly create a cacading domino effect of in-line store closings.
It seems as if Eastland is adding in-line tenants these days rather than shedding them. I think that what's interesting re: retail is when malls compete with one another, so I was sorry to see that the number of vacancies at Eastland had declined prior to a recent visit.
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Regardless of how the Parisian saleswoman's remarks are viewed, having JCPenney instead of Parisian won't help Columbiana attract upscale tenants, since sometimes upscale in-line tenants locate where upscale department stores are.
I am sure that when Greenville Mall attracted a Parisian, some of the other stores that located there came because of Parisian. Then when Proffitt's came (not much fancier than a JCPenney), the mall's attempts to lure more upscale stores were not helped.
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honestly, considering the mall is bleeding cash, I wouldn't be surprised if the owner cut the website design line item out of its operating budget. At this rate, I'd expect the site to go dark soon.
Bleeding cash? What's the source on this? What is Glimcher spending money on? Not logo updates, at least.
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Wasn't Bonwit Teller in the '80s pretty upscale? If that could be attracted then, why can't something similar be attracted now?
If you look at Saks Inc.'s annual reports, Parisian is described as a store aimed at upper-middle to upper-income residents of large markets. If Columbia meets that target, it should be able to get more good stores.
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I honestly dont see what is so upscale about Parisian......maybe the ones in atlanta are...but the ones here honestly dont carry anything different than what Belk or Dillard's carries....for men anyways....what you can really call a upscale department store is: Bloomingdales, Neiman, Saks, and Lord & Taylor......those are stores where you can find $200+ jeans and brands like French Connection, Diesel, Armani, D&G, True Religion and so on.....
I always considered Parisian upscale because no junk is sold there. Any Belk's or Dillard's will have plenty of nice things there but will also have some $9.99 track suits. Parisian's high-end things aren't usually any fancier than at a nice Dillard's or Belk's but Parisian just doesn't have the cheap stuff.
That Richland Parisian needs some updating- when I first visited in '95 it was nice, but now it looks kind of ragged. I'm really surprised that the Columbiana one was the one that closed- thought it would have been Richland.
I'm also surprised that Parisian hasn't come to NC yet. Northlake Mall and SouthPark in Charlotte would be perfect for Parisian.
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Tapp's again?
Just kidding. Unfortunately I think that the dominant chains in the Carolinas- Parisian (which I consider upscale, like Lord & Taylor), Belk, Dillard's, Macy's, JC Penney and Sears- are all we'll have for a while. Saks is in Charleston mainly because of upper-income tourists, and upscale department stores elsewhere- from Bonwit Teller to the Hilton Head Saks- have failed.
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i like the sun logo... guess it's just the heliocentric in me. RA makes me want to shop.
also, who can deny the symbolism of a sun logo underneath a sheet of ice @ the skating rink???
This is that sun logo- it is from the '90s?
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The mall is in decent shape- not as nice as McAlister Square and not nearly as nice as Greenville Mall were when they died, but still OK. It will probably need some renovations in a few years, but it should be OK for a while more.
I just wish Eastland would get rid of that sun logo above some of the entrances.
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parisian at Columbiana is closing. The lease will be assumed by JC Penney. Look on the Saks corporate website and the press release is there.
Great analysis, StevenRocks and other prior posters- you were right on!
How will this impact Columbiana Center? I would guess that upscale stores are now somewhat less likely to locate there since there is no more sort of upscale-brand anchor. But the mall's demographics should be good. Greenville Mall attracted a slew of upscale stores I think because it had a Parisian, even though the
mall's demographics weren't significantly more upscale than Haywood Mall's were.
This is sort of a reprieve for Richland, unless Parisian is pulling out of Columbia entirely.
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There's a chance of either, but the smart money's on the former.
Why is Parisian maybe leaving- slow sales? Too bad since it is a nice store, seemingly perfect for a moderately upscale mall.
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I think the implication is one the center city, with it's affluent residents, does not support the closest regional mall to downtown. They would, as you mention, drive out to more distant suburbs to shop.
i.e. Downtown is an emerald city surrounded by very trouble areas that continue to lose out in the economic game because the city and it's residents choose not to invest there anymore. Does anyone care, I don't know.
I think inner-ring suburbs having economic problems, sandwiched in by resurgent downtowns and thriving outer-ring suburbs, is pretty common around the US, unfortunately. Wealthy people who work in downtowns either want to live close to work in buildings downtown or want big, nice houses in distant suburbs. Inner-ring suburbs, with older, smaller houses, just aren't what people who can afford better want. Malls in those inner-ring suburbs then die off. McAlister Square in Greenville, SC is a victim of this pattern, and it looks like Eastland is as well.
Deadmalls.com has some updates- one about Windsor Park Mall in San Antonio. That mall seemed to have had a crime wave, with shootings inside and outside the mall. Look where it ended up. Doesn't bode well for Eastland.
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I worry about that place. Having a mall start to fail that close to Uptown is a bad reflection on the city center.
Why? Uptown Charlotte, where I live and work, is very nice. None of my neighbors or co-workers, that I know, go to Eastland; the mall serves a different demographic than Uptown residents. People who live uptown drive up to Northlake or to SouthPark. Eastland and Uptown are two different worlds.
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What I could see there (ironically, given my earlier post) is a more entertainment-based facility with a theater and restaurants surrounding it and some stores on the periphery, although I'm not sure exactly what mix of stores.
I agree. Thanks to everyone who filled me in about the mall's decline. Maybe a Magic Johnson movie theater will come there. The mall always has seemed to still do a decent business, even though the sales per square foot are low. People in east Charlotte need a good place to shop and go to movies, etc., and I hope that they get that, especially as the market could support a mall geared towards that community.
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When did Eastland start to go downhill? I remember visiting the mall in the early 1990s (going there instead of SouthPark even) and it seemed fine. Then when I went there for the first time in over 10 years this spring, I was really disturbed by the scary clientele and the mall's somewhat dated appearance. Did the area around Eastland just go downhill in the late 1990s?
Charlotte has more than its share of scary, run-down malls; Eastland is just one of several. I'm surprised that any of them have lasted as long as they have.
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Does anyone know when the most recently-added national tenants came to the mall? American Eagle Outfitters and Hibbett Sports looked pretty new. Either (i) the real estate people in those companies think that Eastland will maintain enough business over the minimum timeframes of those leases to make them worthwhile or (ii) the real estate people have no clue about possibly departing anchors. I'd say it's (i). I went to Eastland expecting to see a dying mall but it appeared decently thriving- at least until today's news!
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Any updates on Eastland? I went there today and the parking lot was decently full; the mall interior was pretty crowded, and there were only a few vacant stores. It isn't a Class A mall, but it is in decent physical shape and appears to have a good occupancy rate.
Unless Dillard's and/or Belk pull out, I think this mall could be around for awhile; even if Dillard's and other anchors leave, I think it could be positioned as an urban-type or perhaps Hispanic-themed mall and could do OK for a long time to come. The stores in the mall's interior seem to be good at targeting the mall's client base. I didn't buy anything there but those types of stores just don't appeal to me, but they seem to appeal to lots of other people who might not be attracted to places like Brooks Brothers or Pottery Barn that are in other malls.
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I no longer have a source inside the Belk organization, but I do know that Hanes Mall (Winston-Salem), Haywood Mall (Greenville), and The Avenues (Jacksonville) are high-volume stores.
Thanks for the info. Do you know which Belks are the worst-performing? I'd think that Richland Mall in Columbia and maybe Eastland Mall in Charlotte are among those.
Also, which other department stores in the Southeast do particularly well? I'd say the Macy's at Lenox Square must be up there.
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If Crabtree's Belk is the highest-performing Belk, and SouthPark is #2, what are the others in the top 5 (or where do you get this kind of information? I find it really interesting). Thanks.
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I also heard there are a couple of "new to the market" restaurants to be in McBee Station.....one being Cosi, which makes sense as it's that sort of coffee, breakfast, bistro kind of place.....perfect for the area.
Is this definite? Cosi is incredibly good- I lived on Cosi when I lived in NYC! What a catch!
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At this point in time, I don't really see the need fro LRT in the area, although the new developments that are geared toward a "Town Center" layout may increase the demand. If you think about it, those type of developments are laid out to reduce the need for automobiles. The mindset of those living within would be different from most others in the area who depend so much on their cars. With that, to connect these areas to each other and downtown would reinforce that mindset.
I agree completely.
I didn't mean to come across as negative (not offended at all). I am hugely supportive of mass transit. I hope Greenville gets a light rail system again one day, along with commuter trains and fast and frequent intercity trains. But I just think that people need to be focusing on things such as building a bigger downtown largely for commercial uses, along with some residential uses, and promoting new urbanist developments largely for residential uses in the rest of the metropolitan area. In time, Greenville will become a viable candidate for light rail if it steers growth in a transit-friendly way. Greenville could easily become the Portland of the Southeast; its downtown is already highly regarded. Town center-type developments in place of typical sprawl are a great idea and are much needed.
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I am glad that there is some funding for light rail. I'm also glad that people are thinking about it and that business and government leaders are discussing it. I just think that it won't happen in Greenville anytime soon.
Keep in mind that Greenville, like other cities of its size in the US, used to have a system of trolleys, interurban trains, and long-distance trains coming through it. The train system started declining in the 1920s, when car use became widespread, and fell apart after World War II, when suburban development took off. If Greenville had the conditions that supported transit back then, it could now. But the conditions included things that we don't have these days- such as a downtown that included most all office, retail and cultural activity and low car use.
I would love to have a city that consisted of a very vibrant downtown- with maybe 75% of the region's office space and even 50% of its retail space- and low car use. Those kinds of conditions can be made again, but it would be extremely difficult; development patterns these days don't work that way. Focus on getting office and retail space back downtown. Greenville's downtown has about 45-50% of the county's office space in it, and maybe 10% of the city's retail/restaurant space. Focus on changing zoning laws and providing incentives to spur a lot more development downtown. Also focus on changing housing patterns so that people live in places that are transit-friendly. Then once that's done, it will be a lot easier to get light rail in place. I'm glad Greenville is thinking ahead about transit, but getting conditions changed so that Greenville would be a transit-oriented town will take a lot of work.
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Wow! this is great stuff! Nice job on the maps jarvisj3.
What are the chances that anything like this would ever materialize? I know Greenville ended up with a grant a few months ago earmarked for LRT, but it surely can't be enough to put a dent in a project of this magnitude.
I'd say the chances of light rail coming to Greenville in the near future are nil. Cities that have it all have (i) large employment bases concentrated in certain areas (generally in downtowns), (ii) really bad traffic and (iii) strong business and governmental leadership in favor of it. Greenville has none of these. I had lunch a few days ago with the head of a transit authority of a city that has a light rail system already and he said that you generally need about 100,000 jobs in a downtown area to provide enough ridership to support a few light rail lines. Greenville just doesn't have that, and probably won't for a long time.
If I were an activist in Greenville, I'd focus on changing zoning laws to shift even more development downtown, and I'd also focus on improving GTA. Once downtown increases dramatically in size, then better mass transit could be considered.
Eastland Mall Redevelopment
in Charlotte
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Absolutely, as that site tracks struggling malls in addition to truly dead ones. Eastland is a very interesting place. I think it will be around for a long time to come, but just with different anchors than now but a lot of the same in-line tenants (the urban-type stores).