Camillo Sitte
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Posts posted by Camillo Sitte
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19 minutes ago, jrs2 said:
Can you please just give some examples of modern non-out of date terminals so I and/or we can have a frame of reference? Miami's AA terminal? That newish airside at Charles de Gaulle? Hong Kong? What are we talking about here? Thx...
I hesitate to do that because I wouldn't want anyone to misconstrue that I was simply advocating for a particular style of architecture, it goes far beyond that. But in the spirit of not wanting to seem ungracious, I would point to Gardermoen, both the original terminal and the new addition. Everyone is free to surf the net for photos, though they can't do that building justice, you really do have to experience it in person to appreciate just how good it really is, but there it is.
Yes, it's a smaller facility that handles ~29M passengers a year, not ~50M, but if a city of 600,000 [fewer than 2M in the metro] can do something like that, so too could Orlando - if it wanted to.
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3 hours ago, AmIReal said:
Maybe it would help if you provided an overview of your expertise/ qualifications in these matters.
Why?
You are asking me to engage in a logical fallacy, argumentum ad verecundiam, or an appeal to authority.
One doesn't need a professional B.Arch, or second profession M.Arch2, or an MA in the history of architecture, or combined 20 years of various practical, professional, and educational experience , etc. to have an intelligent and informed opinion on the matter. Though I will not deny that the years and experiences in acquiring all of that have unquestionably informed and influenced my opinions. There, without question I have a far, far better foundation by education, by profession, and by experience to opine on this topic. Does that mean that your opinion is now invalid? No, of course it doesn't.
What's really funny about all of this is that while I haven't made any personal comments about anyone's opinions, a couple of you seem to have a real problem with me criticizing this facility, as if you see doing so as some sort of personal attack.
There is no point is going into detail about why I think it's really bad architecture because that effort would be completely lost on you - not because it would be beyond your understanding, I'm not insulting you - but because you clearly have no interest in challenging how you feel about the matter and frankly I don't care to try to change your opinion because it simply doesn't matter.
I have stated my opinion and I don't care if you or anyone else agrees with me, as evidenced by the fact that I have not tried to change your opinion.
But you know, let me take another look. Maybe the intermodal terminal isn't so bad, so out of date
Woops, sorry. My bad. Those are photos of airside 3 [1990] and airside 2 [2000]. they just look like the intermodal terminal [2019]
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7 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:
2018 Best Project - Airport / Transit Category (Automated People Mover) - ENR-Southeast
2018 Award of Merit - Airport / Transit Category (Intermodal Terminal Facility) - ENR-Southeast
Grand Award Winner at the American Council of Engineering Companies -Florida (ACEC-FL) Engineering Excellence Awards
2018 Commercial Service Airport Project of the Year (Intermodal Terminal Facility) - Florida Department of Transportation
First LEED® v4 New Construction Certified Intermodal Terminal in the World
First LEED® v4 certified project on the Airport’s New Construction LEED Campus
Lol.
Do you imagine that pointing to a few engineering industry awards is some sort of strong ccomeback or trenchant rebuttal to my criticism of the facility's architecture [or lack thereof]?
I never claimed that the HVAC didn't work or that the lighting was inefficient.
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10 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:
LOL, Okay, then. Have a good one.
All joking aside, and regardless of any differing opinions as to the design of the facility, I find it hard to believe that you really can't see the difference between the first, utterly unrealistic photoshops you posted and the photos in your second post.
I also can't help but point out that in defense of this design which you say you like so much [fine, fair enough, no problem] that you used a bunch of simple descriptive adjectives that really didn't address the actual design, the architecture, or what you feel makes it an appropriate and long-lasting civic representation of Orlando/Central Florida.
There are new construction prisons that are also "bright", "clean", "open", "spacious", etc., but those qualities don't make them great architecture. It just means they are new - not unlike the intermodal terminal. In my opinion of course.
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19 minutes ago, AmIReal said:
Perhaps you should post some of your own photos to provide more insight into the issue. I'm sure that would clear things up.
Don't have to, dcluely98 already did. As I just said, unless one is legally blind or being intentionally obstinate because you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is insulting you, you should be able to see and understand that the first photos posted are utterly unrealistic and the result of heavy-handed software manipulation. The fourth photo in his second post is much closer to what an actual human being would experience.
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29 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:
It's mostly because the shots linked above were shot at night, vs daytime. The lighting is designed not to be necessary when ambient lighting is available. If you actually have been there, you would understand that the lighting conditions wich you are seeing are in broad daylight, and the camera likely adjusts exposure to the brighter areas of the photo, which are outside. As you can see in the latest "dreamstime" photo you linked above, the highest white-point in the clouds outside are over exposed and blown out. That doesn't mean the terminal is not bright inside.
Have you actually been inside the terminal in different conditions?
Yeah, that's not it at all.
The photos you posted are the way they are because Turner Construction, or the firm they hired, slathered them with some fashionable photoshop filtering to try to make them pop on their website, but it also erases a lot of finer details. Real estate agents do the same thing in their listings, and for the same reasons - to pop on the website and catch attention and hide finer details.
Unless one is blind, all they have to do is look at the first photos you posted and then compare that to the fourth photo you linked in your second. The fourth photo in the second post is much more realistic that the two photos is your first post which are utterly unrealistic as no human being would ever perceive the actual space they way that photo[shopped] image portrays.
Oh, and I have used Lot C more than a dozen times; day, night, morning, and evening.
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7 hours ago, smileguy said:
I believe the white wall on the right is a construction wall and will be removed when the building is in full service.
That's some serious stretching - which IMO you totally don't have to do. Just say you like it. It's not a personal insult that not everyone agrees with you.
The brightness in those photos has been jacked up so high that it has washed out a lot of detail. That "temporary construction wall on the right" is actually restrooms. I suspect that they are permanent.
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Pushing up the brightness slider in photoshop is just so much extra lipstick on the same pig.
Opinions as always and as regards everything will always vary, but it strikes me that a lot of people have been conditioned to have low expectations, willingly accept less as normal, and equate adjectives like “new” and “clean” and “bright” alone with good design.
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1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:
...and they are functionally designed.
So are toilets, maxi pads, and condoms.
As regards large civic projects that, beyond their function, represent the people who built them, perhaps there should be more to it than that.
Hmm.
So maybe the 15-years out-of-date 20-years ago design of the intermodal terminal is appropriate for Orlando after all.
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13 hours ago, AmIReal said:
The Jaxson has some nice photos of the ITF. Click the continue button at the bottom of the page to see page 2.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/inside-orlandos-new-intermodal-terminal-facility/
1987 here we com...err, here we are.
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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:
Latest update from OBJ - in Central Florida, the Lucky’s in SoDo, Clermont and Ormond go to Publix:
They are buying out the leases. Disposition of the inventory and fixtures, etc. would be up to the bankruptcy judge.
And given that in SoDo there is a giant Publix literally across the street, I doubt that Publix is buying that lease to operate it as a grocery store and more likely to prevent another grocery store from moving in. I suspect that they will either sit on the lease or sub-lease it to anyone else not wanting to open a grocery store.
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4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:
This is tragic! Krystal has filed for bankruptcy:
From the Sentinel
Krystal [Chattanooga, TN -1932] was nothing more than a blatant but not as good ripoff of White Castle [Wichita, KS -1921], where the "slider" was invented.
So long, imitators.
Their fries were pretty good, but their restaurants were all disgustingly filthy. Using a credit card, one could scoop decades of grease off of any surface they chose to. As best as I could discern, their business model was basically serving drunk drivers returning from the club through the drive-thru window. Seemed kinda limited.
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On 12/28/2019 at 6:13 PM, Jvest55 said:
Living in downtown the brick is nice to look at, from afar, but to drive on it just doesn't make any sense. I don't know how many of you have been to real historic cities, such as London, who hardly even have brick anymore and nobody even cares. Time for Orlando to get over our "historic bricks" and move on to modern times. Ever drive on these brick roads in the pouring rain in rush hour?
I would be happy if the city would just maintain them properly.
The only reason for the suspension-destroying potholes in the brick streets in downtown and surrounding neighborhoods is intentional neglect resulting from an unwillingness to spend the money necessary to maintain them.
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On 12/27/2019 at 6:32 PM, jrs2 said:
So, I flew out of O'Hare's International Terminal (T5) today for MCO. As nice as that facility looks from the outside, the entire airside is covered with worn down carpeting. Very disappointing. The United and American Airlines sides are of course nice with terrazzo and skylight canopies- the AA section retrofitted the 1963 airsides with canopies quite nicely.
At MCO, the Airsides 1 and 3 saw that renovation which gave them the granite central hallway floors and some additional skylights. But, where each airside wing joins with the central part of the airside where the restrooms are, I swear the ceiling height may not be more than 7'. WTF? Are there short people at GOAA that didn't think this needed to be fixed?
Anyway, MCO is fixing the TSA area on the east side and that is a huge update. Terminal C will be stellar. Airsides 2 & 4 are fine. But I still think they need to still improve those parts of Airsides 1 & 3 I stated above.
Oh, GOAA got creative in it's marketing and Disney has wraps for Star Wars around the AGT tunnels on Airside 1. Pretty clever; I never thought of that. Great idea at least on the old side since the newer side is all glass, which is awesome.
The current terminal and airsides were ~20-years out of date the day they opened.
Everything done since is just lipstick on a pig.
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22 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:
It’s been interesting to watch Simon move backward on amenities for Florida Mall. I’m curious what their end game is for it.
Given it was announced long before Altamonte but didn’t open until 12 years after (and with an underwhelming anchor selection of Sears, JCP and Belk’s, it’s always seemed cursed.
It was a much more interesting place ~20-years ago.
At one time in the late-90s to mid aughts they had 8 anchor stores; Macy's [nee Burdines], Sears, JCPenny's, Dillards Women, Dillard's Men [separate building], Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom's, and Lord & Taylor.
The Saks [nee Belk's] is now the new food court, the Lord & Taylor [nee Robinson's, Masion Blanche, Gayfer's, Parisian] is now a two-story Forever 21 and American Girl, and the Dillard's men's store became Nordstrom's which then became Dick's and Crayola. Along the way, other higher end stores like Pottery Barn closed as well. If the Central and South American tourists ever find a new place to go, that place is dead.
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23 hours ago, spenser1058 said:
It seems Florida Mall is becoming more and more of a local mall like Altamonte and leaving the tourists to Disney Springs, Millenia and the outlets.
What does Disney Springs have that Florida Mall doesn't?
Lots of interesting dining choices and a massive movie theater among other advantages.
With the closing of la Madeleine, the most interesting dining option at Florida Mall is the three identical "Asian" food court kiosks all serving the same bourbon chicken and rice.
And there hasn't been a movie theater within ~400 miles of Florida Mall since the General Cinemas 7-plex [located roughly where Target is today] and Cineplex Odeon [located in the empty strip center directly across the street from Target] both closed in the late '80s.
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8 hours ago, spenser1058 said:
Gonna have to drive a little further to get your M&M fix. The M&M Store is moving from Florida Mall to Disney Springs.
Save some green ones for me!
From the Sentinel
Joining Ron Jon who already left Florida Mall for Disney Springs - though M&M is moving to a store that is ~4,000 sf smaller.
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10 hours ago, codypet said:
Restoration Hardware closed. The rest of them are still open right?
No, none of the others mentioned have closed - that was my point about the Sentinel needing more copy editors.
I suspect that what the author meant to say was something like, "After spending two decades on Park Avenue alongside other big-name national stores like Restoration Hardware and Pottery Barn, the Gap is now set to close after this Christmas season.".
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On 11/17/2019 at 8:08 PM, orlandoguy said:
I agree with the comments about the quality of journalism at the OS. There definitely seems to be more spring in their step than there used to be. Jason Garcia’s multi-part series on corporations avoiding taxes in the state of Florida is just the latest example.
Support local journalism!Well, they could still use another two or three copy editors.
Here's an example from an article today about the Park Avenue Gap store closure which I referenced above:
Quote"The closure comes after the company announced in February that it would shut down about 230 stores over the next two years. The Winter Park location is the third in Florida selected to close since then, according to a list on Gap’s website.
The Winter Park store has joined other big-name brands on the avenue, including Restoration Hardware, Alex and Ani, Pottery Barn and Lilly Pulitzer, as well as independently owned boutiques and restaurants."
???
"[H]as joined"? "[H]as joined" other stores in what? Closing, opening decades ago, what?
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The Gap on Park Avenue will close after this Christmas.
I still don't understand how iconic brands like The Gap can't see major changes in their own industries coming until they have been made almost extinct by them.
How did The Gap not see H&M et al coming and make necessary adjustments to their business?
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Perhaps more appropriate here [?]
It will be interesting to see how the Dean Foods bankruptcy affects T.G. Lee operations.
Not that Dean would immediately shut down T.G. Lee or anything that drastic, but it is interesting that Dean is said to be looking for buyers for its assets and not looking to reorganize and reemerge from bankruptcy as a going concern.
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It will be interesting to see how the Dean Foods bankruptcy affects T.G. Lee operations.
Not that Dean would immediately shut down T.G. Lee or anything that drastic, but it is interesting that Dean is said to be looking for buyers for its assets and not looking to reorganize and reemerge from bankruptcy as a going concern.
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On 11/6/2019 at 6:30 PM, spenser1058 said:
UCF Football Friday night and MBB Saturday. Is this a great weekend or what?
Charge On!
Great night for Tulsa anyway. The 7-3 Knights, not so much.
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On 10/30/2019 at 12:32 PM, spenser1058 said:
I was on a Target run last night and noticed the self-storage place behind Colonial Lanes has their sign lit up.
Hopefully, bowling and booze will be back soon!
But without the stench of 50-years of cigarette smoke and used beer, hopefully.
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Metro Orlando Airport News
in Orlando
Posted
The only structural impediment to Orlando doing something like Gardermoen is that Orlando/GOAA and to a lesser extent the state, have given enormous approval/veto powers for airport capital projects to the individual airlines. The Norwegian parliament didn't have to first get permission from SAS or Wideroe.