coastalmindset
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Posts posted by coastalmindset
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^ Elm Street has every bit the potential to be as successful retail-wise as King Street in Charleston.
If only we had the income around downtown to support such a retail environment. Average Household income within 1 mile of Elm Street is about $38,000 while Charleston is around $81,000 within 1 mile of King Street according to SRC. If Greensboro wants to grow retail downtown they should start by encouraging the existing businesses to stay open past 6PM. I don't know many people that have time to shop during the day from 10AM to 6PM (the hours of most of these retail stores). As it stands right now, aside from a few art galleries that host functions at night once in a while, downtown is an entertainment destination for dining and drinking past 6PM.
These stores would benefit greatly by being open when the bulk of people with disposable incomes are downtown which is from about 6PM to 10PM. If there was a stronger contingent of people with disposable income living downtown this would be different but they need to adapt until that happens. Judging from the empty store fronts downtown I'd say few are weathering the storm. Hopefully Center Pointe will help bring some disposable income to downtown but it will take many more projects like that to bring in a stable base for long term, national chain retailers.
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Let's say Roy Caroll built a 30 story tower and signed AmEx as a lead tenant. Who will take their old space? Greensboro doesn't have a high turnover rate when it comes to office space.
I know that this will make me look like I am against the future development of Greensboro but Greensboro has more commercial office space (and retail) than it will need in the next 5 to 10 years without a major economic shift to bring in a rush of businesses. At the end of 2007 Guilford County had an office vacancy rate around 19%, according to Karnes, and given the current economy I would say it hasn't gotten much lower. Adding to the already vacant office space isn't the answer to growing Greensboro's downtown. If only the city planners would stop allowing developers to throw up a new building every week and give some better incentives for developers who rehab existing buildings. This would certainly be a better starting block for continued growth in downtown Greensboro. Fix and fill what is existing then build new. Roy Carroll at least got that part right with rehabbing the Wachovia building into Center Pointe and he should look to continue that trend before throwing up a 40 story high rise that will sit at 60% occupancy for the next 10 years. We already have enough empty buildings.
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I have lived in this city since I was born going on 40+ years now, so I think I now Greensboro well. The topic of this post is Downtown Greensboro Developments and we are not commenting on Charlotte or Atlanta, but since you asked, I do think they are large suburban cities, but they also have large urban cores, and they also have interstates running through or beside the city. Even the size of downtown Winston-Salem with I40 running through it has a very impressive downtown and will continue to grow since access to downtown via I40 is relatively painless. I have had friends from other Triad cities tell me many times that they did not know Greensboro had a downtown. One friend thought downtown GSO was High Point Road in the 4 Season Mall area. Charlotte, Raleigh, and Winston-Salem all have large skylines that demands your attention when passing by and even from a distance. Greensboro's downtown is kind of hidden and really not visible to folks who pass through via I40/I85.
While I've only been here 15 years I agree that most large scale cities are suburban at their root with large scale urban centers. And I agree that these "urban cores" develop in part from the ease of interstate access. From the center of downtown Greensboro to I-40 (the closest interstate) it is roughly 2.5 miles, so for new developments in downtown Greensboro, especially all these proposed high rises, wouldn't it make more sense to grow toward the south side of the city which would grow downtown closer to I-40? Maybe the city planners should look at that if they really want to push the growth of downtown. I would think that would help set a boundary for its urban core while at the same time making it more accessible for visitors.
As we become more energy conscious, people will want more and more to live close to work and while this theory would support the growth of future downtown developments in some cities, Greensboro has continued to bring in jobs that leave people living in a suburban environment due in part to our cities design. Shipping, logistics and large scale manufacturing simply don't work in our current downtown environment. The land isn't there, what is there isn't cheap and it's not close to reasonable transportation. The Hwy 68 area will continue to grow at a much faster rate than downtown because these industries can thrive there. While in 10 years there may be a shift that brings large scale developments to downtown Greensboro I would doubt we will see many large scale developments downtown in the next few years without a shift in our economic position. As you mentioned downtown will remain an entertainment and dining destination.
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If I recall the next tower was scheduled to be built near the airport not downtown. I am not sure if this has been put on hold or cancelled. The majority of growth in Greensboro will be in and around the airport, where land is cheap. I don't for see a need for any high rise office buildings in downtown Greensboro. Greensboro is a large suburban city with a very small urban core due to the fact that Greensboro is obsessed with annexing everytime they get a chance. The majority of growth that Greensboro will see over the next few years will be due to FedEx and will be concentrated in and around hwy68 and I40. Unfortunatley downtown Greensboro is not convenient to the Interstate. I think the I40, hwy68 area has a better chance of seeing future high rise proposals than downtown. Downtown will continue to grow as a entertainment district, with some low to midrise buildings. Young professionals, singles, empty nesters will be drawn to downtown because it offers a since of community in an urban setting. I don't beleive downtown Greensboro will be able to support to many more expensive condos. Apartments and affordable housing options will have to be offered if downtown wants to continue to grow in population. I am really not sure why some on this fourn are so obsessed with high rise buildings in downtown Greensboro. If downtown GSO would have been a little closer to I40/I85 and if leaders of the past would have foucsed on developing a dense urban core, things might be different today for downtown, but instead Greensboro choose to grow out instead of grow up, which is the main reason it has such a small downtown. Lets be happy with what downtown is developing into and focus on continuing to promote it as the Triad"s main entertainment district, instead of a bunch of boring high rise office buildings that are lifeless after 5 and on weekends.
This is probably one of the most accurate and in tune points I've ever read on UP.
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Winston-Salem just started discussion on a similar proposal at this months city council. Any action on it was delayed for further talks.
I am completely for this law for so many reasons besides asthetics. So many utilities are underground now and go thru people's front yards. If a car is parked on my neigbhors lawn and I have an issue with one of my utilities (phone, gas, cable, etc.), I could potentially be delayed from getting it repaired until that vehicle is moved. Not to mention the ruts in the yard can effect drainage on the property and neighbors property.
While I agree that there should be some reasonable control over what people do on their property when it affects the properties around them, I don't see how this law is enforceable. What is the reasonable definition of ones front lawn? If I paved my entire front lawn or put down gravel does that allow me to park on it? What if I have a U-Shaped driveway that runs through my front yard?
I can't wait for all these people to move their cars in to the street in front of their houses.
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I wasn't being negative with my comments but rather my point of view was that of concern. Greensboro keeps building offices, hotels, and retail without people to work in them, stay in them or shop at them. There are so many projects out there from developers (many which may never get developed) that the city is being overrun and continuing to sprawl. If we already have 2 downtown hotels and not many people staying in them why build one, two or three more? The city should lend a hand to the existing hotels so they are remodeled or bought by owners that will actually spend a few dollars on them.
I know that these developers do a ton of research. A lot of that research says we'll pick up X% just because we're "new" and we'll take away X% of business from the existing downtown hotels leaving them to die and become more vacant buildings downtown. I'd like to see a study showing where we need more hotels, maybe it's out there. We've just added the Proximity and remodeled the Double Tree/HOJO (<--this is what we need more of in Greensboro, remodel!) among others in the Wendover area. I think the hotel concentration is positioned where the people tend to stay. The convention center and I-40 have a large amount of hotels around them. The Friendly area has two hotels because of Friendly and the multitude of office parks around them. I just don't see convention people staying downtown when they can stay at or across the street from the place they spend their days.
Cities like Charlotte have lots of downtown hotels because they have multitudes of offices (BOA has 2 high rise buildings on it's own), a downtown arena (with pro sports and good concerts) and other draws. Greensboro, while I hope one day we get some of these things, doesn't have the need yet, in my opinion.
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Maybe with horse patrols the police will actually do some policing downtown. Standing on the corner doesn't seem to do doing too much. They could at least be out there sending all the 16 year old kids home by 1 AM.
All they really need to do is remodel the Marriott into a place where people actually want to stay. And given the latest reports on the local economy, like this one from the N&R, "Median earnings have declined, the poverty rate has risen to 19 percent, and population growth is sluggish, according to the report", I'd say we should look at some business development instead of hotels.
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Bidclerk is pretty cool. I've never seen that site before but it certainly tells you alot about what's going on. Too bad full access is so expensive. I can't wait to see the PTRP in a few years.
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Greensboro based Daimler Buses North America received 1,052 orders for diesel-electric hybrid transit buses. MTA New York City Transit and Ottawa, Canada are among the cities that have ordered the buses
http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...STAFF/590546668
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...wHY6nf5KfjhWNMQ
actually I wasnt aware that Greensboro had the North American headqaurters for Daimler Buses. I was also surprised that there is a Daimler Bus manufacturing plant in Greensboro on High Point Rd.
This is a big boost for this company and of course it is always nice to see municipalities go "green" whenever possible.
I think Daimler Buses is actually located in High Point with the original manufacturing facility (formerly Thomas Built Buses) on High Point Road and Guilford College. But the offices and newest manufacturing facility for Thomas Built Buses are in High Point. Daimer owns both Freightliner and Thomas Built Buses. The buses are made locally and there are quite a few Freightliner manufacturing facilities in NC.
*I guess only Thomas Built Buses are built out of the HP location. I was under the impression that all their operations (TBB and Daimler Buses) had been moved to that building. Guess I was wrong.
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And the sale of Friendly and the rest of the Starmount portfolio is final.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/go...amp;newsLang=en
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And here is your official announcement:
http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/71129015
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now we know what that building is.
I think most of that building will be DSW Shoes. Apple could go in the small shop space next door to DSW or in the building next to Francesca's. Actually there about 8 vacant spaces on the back side of the new buildings betweeen REI and Jason's Deli. Apple will be a huge addition to this center.
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I understand the concept that certain older people may not feel safe in a parking deck but it works in cities all over the country. I showed an example of this in my last post (take a look at the first link in my prior post and you can see the 3 level deck under the buildings in the picture). While it is certainly expensive to do a proper parking deck in this manner it is worth while if you want an easily walkable property.
In the Atlantic Station example the parking deck is built underground with the buildings and structures on top of the parking deck. This way you don't have to disguise an above ground deck as anything else because it is below ground. Pedestrian exits are on just about every corner so it is very convenient to get from deck to shops, It's kind of like going into a subway except it's a parking deck, it's the same kind of feel. As far as safety is concerned proper lighting and security cameras will prevent many of the problems people may think of although as with anything in life we are never 100% safe from crime. Yes crime even happens at Friendly Center. If it can work on such a large scale in a town like Atlanta I think we could make it fairly safe here in Greensboro. They also have limited street level parking so those who may be scared of a big wide open parking deck can park on the street. It works, just take a look a North Hills in Raleigh, similar concept and people don't seem too scared to use that place. I see people of all ages using parking decks in downtown and I don't see any problems there. I think if we want big city amenities we need to have a big city mentality.
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I agree with what is being said with regard to it being walkable and the overall urban feel of Friendly Center. I believe most of this topic started from a question about people being able to walk to decent paying jobs from Somerset and the answer to that is still yes it is possible and not entirely inconvenient. We will never see the changes mentioned by JerseyBoy and others unless we use what we already have. If we continue to drive instead of walking to (for those that live close enough) and around Friendly or other centers there is no incentive for the city or for property developers to make changes because people have a mentality that driving is the only way. Gotta use what we've been given in order to make it better.
As far as Friendly Centers design (for the new section) the right thing would have been to build it on a parking deck, much like Atlantic Station in Atlanta. That place was designed perfectly although it is on a much larger scale than Friendly. Limited asphalt and yet still with convenient parking because everything was build on top of the parking deck. Expensive but it makes for a great lifestyle center which is entirely walkable. North Hills is also a decent example of this and is a little more spread out like Friendly. The city requires so much parking yet doesn't give incentives to allow for enough parking and a walkable property so developers choose the cheap road everytime.
Here's a few links on Atlantic Station, this should be our city's thinking for future developments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/realesta...amp;oref=slogin
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I think Friendly has done a decent job considering that they never intended it to be an "urban" environment. And Friendly certainly is designed to make the automobile driver frustrated. Have you ever tried to drive through that place from end to end?
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While I agree that it is not a complete urban environment it has come a long way in becoming more pedestrian friendly and having spend a lot of time there I would say while it is spread of it is very walkable. Where specifically is the Friendly Center area lacking crosswalks? Maybe at Northline and Green Valley, I'm not sure on that one but I think there is a cross walk there? Without seeing it in front of me I believe there are crosswalks at every major intersection along Friendly, Green Valley, and Benjamin Pkwy. I guess if more people used the sidewalks the city would have an excuse to make them wider but they are plenty wide for the 10 people a day that use them. As far as being able to walk to high paying jobs from the Somerset Condos (ones in which the employees can afford the price of the condos), it is possible.
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I second that, this development keeps adding to a big problem. I'd like to think developers in the Triad would take ques from Charlotte area builders but I guess they're only in it for the money around here.
Much like every other urban infill development in the Triad, this one will most likely cater to the demographic you described blburton.I take it Somerset at Friendly will go here? Not very pedestrian friendly if you ask me.
I've got to disagree to a certain extent here. While I think the overall development was not designed very well there are numerous places of employment within walking/biking distance. First off there will be new office space just beyond Mimi's Caf
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I believe the official announcement is slated for Nov. 30. or at least at the end of the month of November.
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Sorry about the misquote above. I went and read the article in the business journal and I see they will get money from the city just not from the county.
http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2.../01/story1.html
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RF Micro will expand in Greensboro despite not getting any City/County incentives.
Link to Story:
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I'm not on board with this whole "HOT" thing. While I agree with the notion of sensible planning for future developement of the geographic center of the Triad, the urban focus should be on the downtowns of W-S, HP and GSO rather than trying to create an urban feel in an area whose employment base is and will likely continue to be focused on logistics which are inherently non-urban, low density, single-use programs - ie. shipping (FedEx), storage (warehouses) and manufacturing (Dell). And, the proposed Triad Tower, regardless of its mixed-use program, will do nothing (as it is currently designed) to promote an urban feel because at the end of the day, it will be an out-of-place tall tower in a sea of parking. To echo many other posters on here, it should be built "downtown."
While I agree that the jobs being brought into the area are similar to what has caused us problems in the recent past, ie manufacturing, I don't see any of the cities doing anything to change the focus on new employers. Specifically in Greensboro we keep building office space when we have a 20% vacancy rate in existing office space. The city needs to slow down that growth and work harder to bring in employers to fill that space, much of which is downtown. There have been no major corporations or even mid size companies that have opened or move their operation into the downtown (I'm speaking of Greensboro) area recently but the area around Triad Tower continues to see the highest level of employment growth in the city. If downtown can shift its focus from over development to recruiting financially solid employers then I might shift my thinking but you have to look at the facts. There is a steady growth of jobs, retail and restaurant real estate continues to grow as does residential real estate in this proposed HOT area and until the downtowns can catch up putting all you eggs in one basket does nothing to enhance the triad as a community.
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This should help sort out using other people photographic work:
General Copyright Principles
You should follow the principles found in U.S. copyright law:
1) If you didn't create it, or obtain distribution rights, you don't own it or have rights to copy, store, publish, or distribute it.
2) The creator/author/owner must explicitly relinquish rights for an original work (photograph, illustration or other art work) to be placed in the public domain.
3) Fair use allows the copying of small portions of an original work without the owner's permission, but only for evaluation, criticism, education, and news reporting.
4) If you aren't sure, ask for permission.
Also check here for further info: http://www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3
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I really enjoy watching people drive from store to store at Friendly Center. Like the stores are so spread out people couldn't walk from Belk to Barnes and Noble. Very humorous to me.
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I didn't know that the buck stopped with Matt Brown when it came to making decisions in Greensboro. But that article sure would like to make you think so. Maybe it would be nice to hear from John Swoffard and The ACC. Don't you think they should play a part in this instead of Matt Brown wasting our money with architectural drawings and his speculation on what he would like to see happen?
Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't heard a peep out of The ACC about where their Hall of Fame should go.
Much like every other urban infill development in the Triad, this one will most likely cater to the demographic you described blburton.
Downtown Greensboro Developments
in The NC Triad
Posted
It's across from the old War Memorial baseball stadium. I would place it as just outside the CBD. It's at the corner of Yanceyville St. and Lindsay St. http://www.greensboro-nc.gov/departments/P...ilities/market/