[Norfolk International Airport]

It's been a long time since I've posted anything here, however, to add to this conversation there are 2 reasons they removed the moving walkway and haven't replaced it yet; 1, it's service life was over, and secondly, and the most important, is since the structure is actually a bridge as opposed to a building on a foundation vibrations in the structure caused extraordinary wear in the walkway which ended it functionality soon than it should have.  They are supposed to be working on a solution but who knows when that will be.  

I think also part of what makes it seem like a 'long' walk which in actuality it's not as long as some other airports is there is no activity along the path to the arrivals.  If there were concessions along there this would make a big difference in people's perception of how long the walk actually is.

 

[Norfolk Cruise Terminal]

There are many factors that the cruise lines consider when deciding where to place their ships. Obviously the market size is a big one, and one that we really cannot do anything about. Another thing that nobody has brought up yet (thanks local news teams for not asking enough questions) is port fees. It is my understanding (though I do not have hard facts) that Norfolk's fees are much higher than other cities - including those of Baltimore. The cruise lines look at their bottom line before anything else. We have an amazing terminal (if you haven't been, you should check it out) that is probably one of the nicest in the entire country. We have extremely satisfied passengers AND crew members (the ship workers, Captains, etc. ALL love Norfolk and wish it was their home port) - but we have a city full of negative citizens who can't seem to think or do anything positive. Just look at the comments on any PilotOnline article... hardly a single positive comment to be found - ever! HR citizens could make a dog show sound like genocide. All anyone wants to do is complain about the failure of Waterside, the Half Moone, Nauticus - how about supporting them? Or try to come up with an idea of how to make them better. If you want to cruise out of Norfolk but are dissatisfied with the lineup... stop complaining!!! Go online, send an email, call a customer service rep, travel agent, or even write a letter! Tell the lines that you want more ships leaving Norfolk. There are tens of thousands of potential cruisers out there who are equally convenient to Baltimore / Norfolk / Charleston and because of that, when they don't see what they want, they simply go to another port. Nobody feels that their opinion is valued and so they don't try. Well, I'm telling you, it does!!! Get out there and make yourself heard - but try to be positive about it! We CAN get Royal Caribbean back and we CAN get other cruise lines in as well. Just because one ship left for Baltimore does not mean we are out of the line up. There are newer, bigger ships coming out every year and the smaller ones have to relocate somewhere. Norfolk's harbor can not accommodate the massive ships that are considered state of the art today (have you seen Grandeur, Enchantment, or Glory turn around in the river? its a close call!) but we can certainly provide a home for the (still luxurious!) ships of a smaller class.

I have to agree wholeheartedly.

[Downtown Norfolk Progress]

Seems that due to the way the city was planned, there's really not too many places to expand, not without knocking down some of the older buildings, and Norfolk's done enough of that recently. The two sides of Brambleton seem so distant, like two different worlds. You have the businesses on one side, then they Greyhound station on the other side, which seems a bit seedy. I'd love to see more businesses on that side, but find a way to compromise the older architecture, not just rip everything down.

It's not the biggest downtown in the world, but it's not bad either. I would prefer more businesses than the vacant condos, but we still have a nice skyline.

St. Paul's Quadrant should be where the CBD is expanding with higher density commercial on the west side while gradually decreasing the density to the east.

[Norfolk Cruise Terminal]

They have a better population base for the cruises but I'll bet after their half day cruise to the Chesapeake Bay bridge tunnel the Baltimore passengers will wish they had departed from Norfolk.

Just to chime in on this, mikeas is correct, Norfolk cannot compete directly with Baltimore since it has several strategic advantages over Norfolk. They are located within a 3 hour drive of the 20MM+ population vs our 8MM+ within 3 hours. This is a fact of life and nothing that Norfolk can do about that. I have read on other comments indicating that their is nothing to do once embarking/debarking off the boat, however, this is really immaterial. Most importantly, most people that are 'driving' in or 'transferring' to the boat are more interested in getting on or off. Having amenities surrounding the terminal is nice, however, it won't make or break filling the boat. Time and ease of getting on and off is most important.

Therefore, IMO, I do believe that Norfolk needs to change its marketing mix in that they should be trying to create a more fly vs drive based market for their cruises. This would require more direct flights to ORF since transfers could be made more quickly under these circumstances. Nothing against PHF, but its located too far from the cruise terminal to offer timely transfers to the boat. This would create a MUCH larger catchment or service area than what exist now. Now Baltimore already has the infrastructure to do this, however, from reading that Pilot article, it doesn't appear that they are capitalizing on this since the customer base is already within their backyard.

If they don't do this, cruise lines will come and go and ultimately Norfolk will end up with another White Elephant.

[Downtown Norfolk Progress]

It would be interesting to graph the population growth of the major cities and compare them with Norfolk's. The census bureau has the population for the largest 100 cities in the US for each census back to 1790. http://www.census.go...7/twps0027.html It would be quite easy with an Excel spreadsheet, but it would be tedious. I assume the growth track of the cities would be mostly parallel, but at some point Norfolk's would diverge from the other major cities. If the divergence is sudden, we could probably pin down the cause - the yellow fever epidemic, the Civil War, the industrial revolution, etc.

Is anyone up for the challenge of gathering this data and entering it into a spreadsheet?

I did the spreadsheet using that census data from 1790 onward. Unfortunately, when I attempt to attach it won't display right, so if anyone wants to see it, let me know and I can e-mail it to you. I did a comparison with the large NE cities as well as some Mid-Western and Western cities. It should be noted that Norfolk really didn't grow until the 20th Century, particularly during and after WWII as I had stated before. The NE cities were and always have been the largest and the Mid-Western cities didn't grow until the 19th Century. All surpassing Norfolk very quickly. I added Charleston to note that at one point it was the third largest city in the country. Then later on it completely fell off the list of even being in the top 100 cities. Charlotte didn't even make the list until 1940 while Norfolk was always on the list, albeit not at the top though. Baltimore has always been relatively close to the top. By comparison here, it confirms what I had stated before. Anyone have any additional comments on this spreadsheet?

[Downtown Norfolk Progress]

Somehow, someway, when Boston and New York and other Northeast cities and also New Orleans and places like St. Louis(at 1 time was almost at 1,000,000 residents but never passed over 1 million) Norfolk as well as Richmond never got to 400,000 or more people. Norfolk was in the early times of America after the War for Independence one of the more dense(smaller square mileage) as well as more populated in terms of colonial times that is. I wonder what happened when cities like Cleveland and Kansas City and other cities continued to grow(even though most of these towns have lost people to the suburbs) why didnt Norfolk and Richmond. Richmond was also a populated city by colonial standards as well.

Norfolk, nor Richmond ever got to the size of some of the other US cities that remain major cities like Cleveland(at least its more recognized than Norfolk,Richmond that is) and St Louis! I always when looking at old census numbers wondered how much more important Norfolk and Richmond were then. Were Norfolk and Richmond similar to what Boston and Philly are now in terms of importance and country recognition? Im talkin about comparing the late 1790's-1830's to present America guys! Something effected Norfolk and Richmond from becoming major cities. Alot, not all major US cities got were they are today based on there start in the 1800's-1870's!

Also, Im sure Varider already saw this but, Baltimore was also a city that almost crossed 1 million people! It was a large city and back then was a top 10 city! Very interesting when you view the census and see the change and see new cities like Charlotte,Miami and Atlanta as well as L.A go up in rankings as well as Dallas and Houston to! Many other cities have surpassed Norfolk and Richmond in population as well! Why the growth of both cities never crossed the 400,000 mark and why the growth didnt continue like Boston and Philly as well as Baltimore and other cities from colonial times is a mystery!!! L.G.N.M

I don't comment too much on this blog, I usually just read, however, I wanted to chime in on this discussion as to why Norfolk and Richmond never grew in the way NE Cities have. I was reading something several years ago which I think may answer this question.

During colonial times, Portsmouth, Norfolk nor Richmond never developed as extensive port and trade cities like Baltimore, Philly, New York, and Boston. I say Portsmouth first because its actually older than Norfolk. It wasn't until the 20th Century that this region became a major port. This was due to the fact that trade in the Virginia Colony was performed directly at the Plantation as opposed to in the cities since the ships coming directly from England could sail directly there. The ports in Portsmouth and Norfolk only served the immediate Norfolk, Princess Anne, and Nansemond County hinterlands with their respective agricultural trade. One side note, Richmond did not grow until after the Civil War and the industrial revolution was in full swing. It only had the capital before hand. This could not be done in the NE since the river system does not permit one to sail a large ship that far upstream unlike here. Therefore, any colonist from the NE agricultural regions wishing to sell their goods to England had to deliver the goods directly to those port NE port cities. This required an extensive trading network in the cities which brought people into the cities. Also, because non-navigable rivers contained rapids and were fast moving, it made good for hydropower to turn mills to produce textiles, giving birth to industry. Therefore, when the industrial revolution occurred these areas were prime for new industry and industry headquarters since there was a workforce ready to go. This eventually yielded the 'Fortune 500', large industry type that is and was located in the NE. Also, Richmond added industry during the industrial revolution since it was near the James where it was fast moving at that point.

Usermel, you mentioned cities like Kansas City and St. Louis in the Mid-West. Well, again these cities were located along trade routes leading west and as the country expanded and the population moved west, it required industry to move with it, which required a large workforce. Naturally, industry and agricultural trade would occur along the trade routes further adding to these cities' population.

It should be noted that the Navy did not become a large portion of Hampton Roads' economy until the early 20th Century when Teddy Roosevelt built the Great White Fleet. This area was ideal for a new Naval Installation, which was constructed at Sewell's Point, which ultimately became NOB.

So, this means that cities grow due to the fact that people have a reason to go there for work. The same reason why we aren't growing now and have lost people to Charlotte and Raleigh, due to the lack of good paying jobs.

[sports in norfolk]

You're kidding, right? Facts that something hypothetical won't happen . . . hmm.

I guess if you really wanted a fact that it hasn't happened, history proves it b/c we don't have any teams that charge that much.

But this is all beside the point. A team represents a massive investment, a risk. Someone (a large organizing body) has to invest, to believe may be a better phrase, that people WILL pay that much to see a team. It hasn't happened for a reason. I'm not saying that it couldn't or that it won't only that it is a big deal and maybe not in the best interest of our area.

Hi to everyone, I have been reading posts on this blog for years and have never posted, but I just wanted to chime in on this one.

I can understand your arguments in regards to the investment risks involved in placement of a pro sports team, however, when was the last time that anyone sold any tickets of any price for a major league team which was located in Hampton Roads?

I believe it was during the period when the Norfolk Baseball Company was attempting to lure the Expos. Which we could have won if there hadn't been an overwhelming political tide to take the team to DC (which I believe was already

decided before the relocation was announced, however, this is for another topic).

Oduengineer, to test your hypothesis in regards to why the teams here do not charge the prices major league teams in other locales charge, do a comparison; check to see if the Charlotte Knights charge what the Panthers or Bobcats charge. That is a team that co-exists with two major league teams. Also, check to see if the Gwinnett Braves charge what the Atlanta Braves, Falcons, or Hawks charge. Again, even in this case, the major and minor league teams both co-exist with one another for the same sport in the same market.

Really, what it boils down to is that no one individual, group of individuals, or government has truly wanted to make the capital investment required to lure a major league franchise to Hampton Roads. Period. It