Case
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Posts posted by Case
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guys, can we move this racial talk to the off-topic and focus on LRT updates? And can someone grab some pictures this weekend of new lines/construction since January?
As much as we may love to talk about LR and transportation issues in vacuum away from race and class, it just isn't reality. their is a reason Europe is covered with trains and LR and US is not. Its more than just our love for cars. Go to ANY diverse city where public transportation is being debated and you hear the same arguments about race and class. -- believe it or not our mention of these issues are mild compared to some places.
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The red line loop through chesapeake and portsmouth make no sense, if anything that would be two separate lines, one to portsmouth and one to chesapeake. It would be much more efficient that way.
Not as efficient but doable. Look at the Beyond DC website for the map overlay image. It makes more sense when viewed there.
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Thank goodness we have a strong military and government presence here!!! L.G.N.M
DOD and government spending shielded HR and most of the state from the full brunt of the downturn. Funny, I still have people in my building complaining about "government spending" despite that fact that we are government contractors, being paid with tax payers money.
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These people don't read the articles; they just read the sensational headlines and react, not knowing the facts or even caring about them. Somehow, these people are convinced that the money's coming out of their wallet. Or that the money could be better spent on something else--even though the money is earmarked solely for this. Or that light rail will somehow create more crime. Or that the next thing that will happen is the government will take their homes or guns away from them. Or that . . . well, you get the point.
The saddest result of this mismanagement and resulting negative publicity will be to make it politically untenable for other cities to join or (like Chesapeake) even investigate joining the light rail. We could be stuck with a starter line for the next decade, but I seriously hope not.
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An Atlantic Station type development would be great for Norfolk, but I don't see it happening for this property. Atlantic Station works (some people in ATL don't think it works, but the standards are very different there) because it is an addendum to Midtown/Downtown. The Ford location would compete with Downtown, therefore it will likely stay industrial.
An equal comparison to the Atlantic Station project would be if Tidewater Gardens where demolished and replace with Retail and housing mix doubling the size of downtown.
The first time I visited Atlantic Station I had to stop the car in amazement. I said its as if an entire section of ATL was bulldozed and rebuilt. It was an old steel mill and a few neighborhoods that most people were afraid to even drive through. Now its the center of life for Midtown.
But do note that Atlantic Station had some what of a housing crash of its own with many condo going unsold and now being auctioned at far below the auction price..(similar to Miami). This is also why I think the Ford property will stay commercial.
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I surprised there wasn't more (or any post) regarding the High Speed Rail, kick off or promotional tour at the Half Moon Terminal. I was in attendance, but missed the opening speaker. The turnout was greater than expected.. greater than that in Richmond.
I have to say I was somewhat surreal seeing officials from VA Beach, Norfolk, Portsmouth and Suffolk speaking with one voice and endorsing one plan. We could be a competitive region after all. This could lead to greater cooperation on an assortment of areas, hopefully making us a counterbalance to the more cohesive NOVA block in state government.
The preferred plan will effectively run from Washington to Richmond to Petersburg to Chesapeake then the Harbor Park Light Rail station in Norfolk. If this plan is approved VA Beach would have to be Nuts not to join Light Rail. Believe me the Ocean front tourism lobby was in attendance. VA Beach mayor Sessions is winning a lot of friends in HR by backing the plan to Norfolk. He is clearly interested in thawing the Norfolk, VA Beach relationship to something more productive.
Given the National mood it was refreshing to see Democrats and Republican official stand in a room without a hint of partisan tension, but VA has been better about that than many other states.
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But another thing is different between Europe and here: European nations are used to high taxes, that in turn, pay for a wealth of public services, healthcare, enviable schools, and excellent infrastructure. The prevailing mentality here, on the other hand, is that taxes are evil, and that the government mismanages public funds, and therefore everything should be left as-is. Even though this area is dominated by automobile use, this spend-nothing, build-nothing attitude extends to roads as well. The private sector can often offer a quick-benefit solution, but will ultimately siphon money out of our pockets in the long run. Of course, most of us who frequent these forums know what needs to be done, but until we can convince the vocal and politically influential naysayers (more than half of the General Assembly seems to represent them), most of what this area needs will never be built.
The US in general has become ideologically paralyzed when in comes to transit and development. An anti-tax cult has taken hold opposing all taxes and projects which require them no matter how much good the project would do for society at large. The "Government is the Problem" retort has sank in the cultural membrane of society causing a quick knee jerk reaction from many people to appose doing much of anything. We all know something has to be done about the HRBT, the Midtown Tunnel and the already closed Jordan Bridge, but the moment that anyone makes a proposal the naysayer go into overdrive. Apparently everyone paying a couple dollars more a year is too steep a price to prevent 2 hours standard waits to go to and from the Peninsula. The fear of wasting money has some how superseded the fear of killing our regional economy.
What was really sad was the Jordan Bridge was allowed to close without much of a peep from the Cities directly affected. Paul Fraim was more vocal in pressing for a solution than officials from Chesapeake, who are pending money to revitalize South Norfolk. The Jordan bridge was a crucial part of that plan.
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If that's not an incentive to ride the Tide, I don't know what is! They should put that in promotional videos.
I know I'm a bit late on commenting about the above "Soulja Girl" video, but I was truly saddened by the distribution of that video a few months back.. As some someone who practically grew up on Marta (started riding alone around 12 years old) I constantly attempted to inform skeptical people (often whites) that this sort of thing was rare. Now I have a few stories to tell but most of the odd things I witness happen at hours when I probably should have be home anyway (i.e. 1am).
I have no real fear of incidents like this occurring on the Tide. Like I said this sort of this was rare in Atlanta, where believe me the crazy quotient is exceeding higher there than anywhere in HR.
But the persistent fear (or the political use) of scene's like this video has servery stunted the growth of Marta in the Atlanta Metro, where It should be twice as large. One bad incident could be difference between expansion into VA Beach or not. Trust me (like in the Atlanta metro) one ugly incident will be used as "Willie Horton" to kill the further projects. We can only hope and be vigilant.
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The entire tax debate is usually lacking in detail and perspective. Cutting taxes on the national level has an adverse effect on local regions. Also the distribution of state taxes revenue by property or income make a tremendous difference. (see California who are unable to raise property taxes (prop 13) therefore they depend on (dropping) income taxes.) Please note that many states which have low taxes (often southern and conservative) are also the biggest recipients of federal dollars due to their poverty rates (see SC) and are in essence able to keep tax low due to federal subsidization.
Crude hyper anti-tax speech actually causes many of the developmental and infrastructure problem we face now. Some of the same people who rail about a penny tax also complain the loudest about our lack of a third crossing or our insuffient midtown tunnel. We should hold Gov accountable but balance is needed in this conversation.
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I believe there are other unstated motivation behind this. The students at NSU would be ecstatic to have light rail on campus as would ODU and TCC. Numerous schools in other cities have train stops in the middle of campus. Plus how can you justify having bus stops but not train stops...don't they bring the same "element."
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The following is a picture of a another project by DHA on the homepage of their website. Just goes to show how forward thinking they are with the projects.
I have seen this building design in SE Atlanta. I was not impressed by it... somewhat clashed with all other architecture around it and didn't appear that it would stand the test of time.
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Also from the article.
"Councilman W. Randy Wright demurred, saying it's closer to Chesapeake and Portsmouth than it is to most Norfolk residents. He prefers the Northside site."
I guess by this logic Norfolk should look into moving it's downtown since it's too close to Portsmouth and Chesapeake. ..Can't have those other Hampton Roaders using our facilities! Way to put a huge foot in your mouth, Randy. His words, coupled with a lack of a skate park, doesn't give me confidence that we have progressive minds at work here.
I wonder if anyone's pissed that MacArthur Mall is too close to Chesapeake? I think Norfolk can use a time out. Sit in the corner and think about what you just said.
REGIONALISM NOW!
Merry Christmas.
Looks like Wright, like many in the city have forgotten the existence of the South side.
PS. Randy when you cross the Berkley or Campostella bridge you're still in Norfolk not Chesapeake.
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I think regionalism makes any region more liveable.It's time for Hampton Roads to pool it's resources together.
Adding a pro sports is not a fix all, but It would certainly help market this region to the rest of the country...Imagine national news or ESPN commentators referring to HR or Tidewater region as one unit. I would love to be able to explain to people in other regions where I live in a two word phase. It truly hurts us economically that half the country doesn't know that Va Beach and Norfolk are next to each other. Something is seriously wrong when you have to reference Richmond when coming from a metro of 1.5 mil+
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I truly hope the LR doesn't become a hot button regional political issue which ultimately determines its growth pattern. I witnessed that (still ongoing) battle drag on for two decades in Atlanta. The current system's (MARTA) rail lines almost mirror the socio-political structure of the city. Currently it services regions of city regarded as black or white liberal havens. Growth to the heavily populated suburban counties was prevented by the fear that it would bring in the "wrong element." The equivalent for HR would be a system linking Norfolk, Portsmouth, NN, and Williamsburg but leaving out VA Beach and Chesapeake. I find it truly distressing to hear that same rational being used by Virginia Beach residents today. Its like Deja Vu.
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Both NSU and ingleside residences were concerned about security. Ingleside residences don't want more crime brought to their neighborhood, and NSU doesn't want 2 stops and the storage facility on their campus due to "security concerns".
I can understand how/why Ingleside residents may have misguided perceptions of the LR, but NSU? You can't tell me its administration hasn't had exposure to the plethora universities across the country which have transit stops in middle of their campuses. Inter-connection to the transit systems is a major selling points for many schools in NOVA/DC.
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That seems a bit far fetched. How much development did the bus stops drive? What time period was the light rail completed? For example, if someone else's light rail was completed right before the real estate mania took off, then it might be easy to say the light rail drove the expansion, when really other factors drove it.
Who can tell.
HRT isn't self sustaining .... I don't think blight rail will be either?
Bus stops can not reasonably be compared to rail stops..apples and oranges...
Based on what I have seen in other cities.. If I had the money.. I would buy up all available land around future transit stops. Transit based developments on these sites may not happen immediately or even in 2 - 3 years after the LT is competed but they will happen. I would start picking up property around the Ballentine and Ingleside stations. (which may be one of reasons some people in Ingleside fear this project).
I think NSU has lost its mind in raising objections to this project which would raise the desirability of land in and around its campus. Hopefully they will see the light or $$ signs.
No one should think of this as quick fix but rather an investment in a long term growth plan.
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I would like to think that there is a balance that can be achieved by having a mixed-income residential development in the Quadrant out of respect to the residents in the public housing units while continuing the expansion of downtown, however, I see that having any low income housing in that area will stifle it's growth. Why stop the boom now when it has so much momentum? Let's keep the property values rising, I say. If they're going to provide low-income housing for the residents in the Quadrant, after uprooting them, they should provide it further away from downtown.
I am quite torn on this issue. there is enough land in the St. Paul's Quadrant to build an Atlantic Station class development with housing, office space and retail. An ambitious project like that could truly redefine downtown Norfolk. But what affect will that have on the current residents of St. Pauls and the rest of Norfolk. NIMBY has already been rearing its head in other Norfolk neighborhoods regarding any relocation of current Tidewater Garden residents. This can (will) be a pubic relations nightmare. This scenario has played out extensively in other cities including NY and ATL with gut wenching stories of senior citizens (the forgotten Project residents) being up rooted from there homes. Gentrification has become a four letter word in some circles. It also doesn't help that there is already an affordable housing shortage in this region.
I predict that the city will promote a plan that includes housing for the longer term residents and elderly on this property while attempting to relocate/disperse the others.
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This is not a missed opportunity at all. In fact, I doubt many people would have come from VB if it were a Whole Foods or anything else.
Live in or visit any city that has Wild Oats/Whole foods etc. People drive from all over their metro areas to go there, making them shopping tourist attractions. (the food equivalent of IKEA). Yes, Farm Fresh stepped up to the plate and hit a home run. But the idea is to make downtown a destination for more than those who live by it. But on the flip side, it is never a bad thing work with local businesses you trust to not pack up and leave at the fist sign of bad times.
But, I don't buy the notion that the demographics aren't here to support those type of stores. Trust me, if Tulsa Ok can support that kind of store...HR can.
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I finally visited the New Downtown Farm Fresh. While it is a good store with good amenities, I can't help but wonder what it would have done for DT Norfolk had it been a Whole Foods or Wild Oats. No one will be driving from VA Beach, PT, or Ches just to visit a Farm Fresh, but they would have had it been one of the above mention stores. A missed opportunity. I was told a rumor by workers @ Trader Joe's in NN that Farm Fresh actively lobbies southside cities to prevent the expansion of other chains in the region. Sad if that is actually true.
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I agree with Tel, I think we should have done monorail all along. Where I lived in Japan, they started out with only buses for transit and then went to a starter line monorail (13 km long) in 2003. It carries about 60,000 passengers per day and keeps growing. I think they chose monorail because it was too crowded for anything else, but still, it just looks so cool and it avoids traffic and pedestrian accidents. But *sigh*, reality must set in because of costs.
In a perfect world, this wouldn't be a light rail project at all, but rather heavy rail or monorail on elevated platforms and underground stations extending across a new downtown tunnel to Portsmouth. Sad but, everything that is truly sensible is now "cost prohibited." I support this project in part because its do-able. An imperfect plan should be scrapped when an alternative that can be accomplished in the foreseeable future. I would rather do something before 2030. That is short sighted, but we have to pick our battles.
But i do believe we have no business building anymore tunnels without the possibility of rail access. I would rather they wait 5 years than build a new midtown tunnel without it.
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Most of the negative comments are just a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacking if you ask me. My guess is the opponents of light rail were kind of quiet for a while because they didn't think it would get this far. But now that they see it becoming a reality, it's like they're in panic mode or something.
Fortunately, they waited to long to truly stop it....(I hope)....One city getting hundreds of millions in federal funds.. how often does that happen? and people are complaining about the amount Norfolk is responsible for. I am a major critic of how Norfolk spends funds, but this is a once a generation opportunity, a no brainer. Once complete it will instantly raise the stature of the city and region in the eyes of onlookers whether they ride it or not. I wonder if half the people making negative comments on hamptonroads.com have ever even been on city train before. I swear they must have this 80's graffiti covered image of what metro trains are like.
And negative comments made by non - Norfolk residents are predictable...I think they (vabeach) base half their self esteem on believing that they are better that Norfolk, therefore they must attack its every attempt to better itself. No offense intended to VA BEACH residents on this board.
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I'm still trying to decide which is cooler... Norfolk or Virginia Beach.
What are you... 12 years old...just kidding.. Telmnstr's statements illustrate a fact that truly alludes may in city government, A cities youthful or "Cool" image truly does affect it future economic viability. Upwardly mobile, creative and educated youth often make the decision of where to settle based on the silliest of things such as night life, party scene, the look of the city. They want to feel they are part of a "movement." These are often the same individuals who have the ever important entrepreneurial drive. I truly hope that the light rail project will be Norfolk's lightening rod for imagination and progressive thought.
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Something just occurred to me. Why are we still scheduling and holding workshops? Wasn't this plan supposed to be complete a long time ago? I think they need to speed up the process a tad. Nothing wrong with taking time to get it right, but with all of these highly paid consultants you would think they could've come up with a solution by now.
Unfortunately, Norfolk has a long history of drafting development plans (some with citizen participation) ,shelfing them, then a few years later calling for citizen help to draft a new community development plan. Several community activist have described this scenario in length to me. Some even went as far a digging up letters and plans from two decades ago and presenting them to dumbfounded city officials.
Hopefully this is a thing of the past. There is quite a bit more visibility today.
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Has anyone seen the progress on the Barnes & Noble in MacArthur Center? All I've seen is a "Coming Soon" on the website.
Also, my memory is slipping. Is it supposed to have direct access to the outside, or are the only entrances from inside the mall/garage?
looks like Aug 16th is the opening date.....sooner the better, I'm tired of driving to Greenbriar or Town Center to go to Barnes and Noble, but I really wish this could have been a free standing or attached structure.
St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)
in Norfolk
Posted · Edited by Case
People who make statements as seen above are sad to me.. They make no attempt.. or even care.. to find out what is the true situation. I have many issues with how Public housing is run and was built in the first place, but these ridiculous generalizations are not helpful and smack of ignorance.
The above writer probably knows nothing of people with chronic health condition who wait for years to get into public housing because there medical expenses and condition prevent them form doing thing the average person would consider basic. This includes an intelligent young woman I met who was forced down this path due to sever epilepsy. She was doing everything "right" but was in this position.
If this is not your situation count yourself blessed...not enlightened.